There are others careers with more or less the same damage output but able to tank many more hits, become invulnerable, dash, heal, leap, insta-stagger everything around them, etc etc
Incredibly strong support abilities? Like 10% cooldown reduction after killing boss… boss wich may also doesn’t spawn?
Same damage output? Very few have a similar damage output in melee.
Warrior priest is far more durable but he doesnt have any build that lets him oneshot chaos warriors, ability wise or weapon wise. And monster deeps is not something he´s anywhere good at with any weapon. Only somewhat good with a couple.
Handmaiden? Even with PfP build she´s got nothing that comes close to GK in terms of dealing with elites and monsters.
Slayer? Slayer cant match the near instant bursts from an exe/ability chain but he does have higher DPS…unless the GK is getting and using strength pots.
Shade? Is a sneaky shadow that has low frontline ability and is also fragile. Can match the burst with a conc pot but not without.
…
All in all there is only one career that has Grail Knight beaten in all practical regards except burst, and that is Battlewiz. And she beats everything, always has. Low direct killing power against CW´s is a lower end concern when you can torch entire troupes of them at the same time. Many staves also have good monster damage.
…Maybe Necro as well? Though she lacks mobility and is finnicy but undeniably outrageously powerful when done right.
The error you commit -but, to be fair, many commit it, for this reason GK is so overrated- is to judge GK on paper and not in game
Just to make a brief example, because honestly I don’t want to write a wall text nor start an infinite discussion, the build to one-shot CW with the Exe Sword works only until you have space and the control of the match… but, if you are in that situation, everything is fine
A career must shine in bad situations, where for example you’re surrounded by many elites, horde, etc etc
GK has not damage reduction nor the abilities to create space. Exe Sword is very slow. When surrounded, you don’t have the time to take the sword and use the heavy attacks (plus you need a headshot + crit to oneshot a CW). You could try, but it’s something very, very risky
WP can just swing his flail or his hammer, and kill elites after elites while tanking so many hits, heal up, become invulnerable,create space
(anyway WP to me is perfect. GK should see his nerf reversed)
His ability to create space comes from either bringing a shield or just packing whatever other weapon lets him kill things so quickly that he cant be pilled on. Or using the lvl 30 option for it which also can at best kill 2 CW´s + other stuff in one go if i am not mistaken. Was a while since i used this.
But most people are too passive, too careful, and also often bring sub-optimal weapon pairings in QP.
This is an overstatment, WP heals either via “kill for fury, heal for kills during fury” or via the lvl 30 option, not in a vacuum and especially not if trading hits with CW´s and other stuff of all things. What he can reasonably do is pop the shield with greathammer, and then kill a CW, maybe two, before looking at the rest. Small chaff nearby dies from shield burst.
If he´s got no ability ready to go then he wont be doing anything much better than any other shield using frontliner like IB/FK.
WP as he is right now with at least one build is silly overpowered, GK is fine since his nerf doesnt seem to have actually accomplished much of anything except rattle people. Still murders bosses and hordes alike just fine given the same conditions as before,
Hack and Slash provided 5% critical chance in the previous game version. Now it provides 10%. Therefore the difference between the two is 5%.
So you had 20% chance earlier and not 15% supposing the base 5%, weapon, trinket, Hack&Slash.
Now you have 25%.
So the difference is 5%, not 10%.
So the critical chance table can be shown this way:
1-20 Critical hit
21-25 Critical hit from the buffed part of the talent
26-100 Regular hit
So when you land a hit, the difference is in the middle row. It is important to notice, you can have a crit just as earlier when the result of the “roll” is between 1 and 20.
There is exactly 5% chance the result of the roll will be between 21 and 25.
Therefore the raised critical chance affects every 20th hit (1/0.05).
I know math is hard.
I write this then I stop myself here. Feel free to write again but I won’t answer
The shield stuns CWs? The shield stuns enemies behind you? Shield’s stun lasts enough to let you take your Exe Sword and charge a heavy attack? Shield’s stun prevents other enemies to reach you while you’re using the Exe Sword?
Again your words seem to work just on paper. Because, while surrounded, if you tell that shield’s pushes are enough to let you kill things with the Exe Sword… for me it’s just flat false
But, even if it worked, alternating a shield’s push before each single Exe Sword’s attack would be boring gameplay and would take up a lot of time… in Vermintide you have to kill quickly
Yep, you can kill two CWs with the double hit ult… but it has a very looong animation and leaves you vulnerable. Plus they now nerfed its cooldown too.
You can land a lot of hits because WP weapons create space and stagger (so enemies have less chance of hitting you, unlike with the Exe Sword), because WP has excellent damage resistance and because WP regenerates HP with the fury… then, when you take too much damage, you use your ult, so you heal yourself, become invulnerable and so you can land even more hits… and then the “cycle” starts again
The difference with GK is simply huge
I disagree. WP is balanced and has his precise role (it’s enough to compare him to others balanced careers, like IB, WHC, Merc, BW… they all have pro and cons). While GK is high risk, but not high reward. A glass cannon without the cannon
Plus to melt bosses he needs:
And anyway you’re an easyu target during the entire process
As said, I stop here. My only goal is to leave my feedback to developers and I did it. Have a good day
There is no single melee class in the game that can rival Gk’s damage output, neither in game nor on paper. Some may come close due to being overtuned atm like Wp, but none can match a properly played Gk.
As I pointed out in the line you quoted, his strength pots - which are a guaranteed quest with no rng - are some of the best support abilities in the game because they completely remove the scarcity of strength pots, and str pots are the best potions in the game.
The other quests are likely to give you at least 1 powerful bonus since the only bonus that is kinda whatever is the one you chose for your example - 10% cooldown regeneration (not reduction).
10% damage reduction (teamwide), 5% attack speed (teamwide), 10% power (teamwide), green hp regen (teamwide) are all very potent buffs, with only the book related quests taking more than the first 5 mins of a match to obtain depending on the map.
Not to mention you get two of those quests PLUS unlimited str pots that are easy to farm.
Grail Knight obviously does not have any explicit aoe crowd control as that would be utterly silly to add to the best melee dps class that also has one of the best team support abilities in the game.
Gk is supposed to be played aggressively in a way that let’s you remove enemies faster than they can add up - you outdps enemies rather handily with Gk in most of the common scenarios.
You only really need to pull out the exe sword for CWs and bosses, Mace&Sword heavy spam will absolutely handle almost everything else with minimal effort since it staggers and kills most enemies with ease while being safer, faster, and more mobile.
Additionally, his tmp hp gain is very strong due to hp on kill and Virtue of Stoicism, which allows him to keep going and simply outtrade enemies in a lot of cases and thus provides survivability akin to Zealot’s tmp hp gain.
Besides, Gk already has 180 hp, which makes him quite tanky to begin with and enables him to trade out his hp as a resouce in exchange for damage opportunities, like securing an elite kill or ulting in the middle of horde since you will regain the hp you lost with hp on kill + Stoicism.
Hence why WP should see his buffs reverted and the activation of his Fury passive changed to work “on demand”. His current power level is utterly busted for the reasons outlined in the original post.
@Rapax imo what you said is simply false/wrong but, like said to the other user, I already express my opinion
His words are not false tho, that´s what i was telling ya.
And your case of “GK isnt as good as WP because he has no options when surrounded” is kinda heavily flawed , why TF would that be the premise? GK doesnt end up surrounded with enemies all around to start with unless he messed up. And outside that he beats WP and all others except BW and possibly Necro in output all days of the week.
Furthermore, WP and his talent to regen health while getting kills under fury…does depend on actually getting enough kills to start fury before the fights are over too, that´s still an issue with that talent which makes it way unreliable. And even then it needs a whole lot of kills to actually yield any significant amount of health which makes it even worse.
The most powerful WP build as of last patch comes from this :
- Talent 4-1: ‘Divine Excoriation’ replaced with new talent ‘Blazing Bright’ - Taking damage grants Victor Fury. Entering Righteous Fury grants Victor Shield of Faith.
That, paired with healing shield, makes WP an undying juggernaut for real, and its broken as sh*t. He can literally walk in under an overhead/two smaller hits, take it, get shield and fury, heal back up and get his ability bar nearly filled too. And it works when downed last i heard so he can self revive.
Its not that this does a lot of damage, he is just stupidiously hard to die with.
I mean, it’s not enough to be in two to be right… even because, following this reasoning, a month ago I opened a thread ti explain why GK nerf was bad and everyone was agree with me. A lot of people
To me, you two both are saying wrong things that don’t counter what I wrote… for this I don’t need to continue (and also because I haven’t time)
People opened threads stating that things like Shade nerfs were too much, SoT nerfs were too much, that they are weak now (post then nerfs). People agreeing with that doesnt make it right, those two are not weak. Just like GK now is also not anywhere near weak, nor did his very minor nerfs actually do much to him.
Matter of fact, what people stated back then is that the nerfs were unwarranted, not that GK in particular was anywhere near weak. Similar to how the elf dual dagger nerfs were also unwarranted.
Feel free to think that! My opinion is different
Okay, but others are stating straight up facts
That GK is still extremely powerful post nerfs, and War Priests is utterly broken because of their buff
To me, I’m the one who is stating straight facts
Here I has been brief, on my thread (wich received only positive feedback) I explained every details
Your thread “This is gona kill GK” -…one minor nerf to the power talent (30% down to 24%) and like +20 seconds to his ult so it goes up to 60 seconds from 40-ish and you gone acting like its the end of GK. As if he got nerfed as badly as old SoT/javs/moonbow.
bruh
The engi here was kind enough to not spam bombs and the others two came late but i do not see this as anything even remotely close to “weak”, let alone, “dead”. Was using M&S + exe. And several games later after this, through not screenshotted, were mostly the same. Use Str pots for hordes with elites in them and exe sword/ability to quickly clear chaos warriors&maulers.
The one time i got beaten in damage by someone else in melee it was a battlewiz. One Zealot came close but two slayers were left eating dust.
Sidenote, exe with its inbuilt crit chance + GK talent for critical oneshots lets him onetap CW´s on bodyhits on a crit quite reliably. A single M&S heavy crit also decimates all chaff infront.
It’s 2024 and we still use green circles as a proof? 
However the title was clearly ironic… in Vermintide there have never been dead careers, with skill you can make anything work… but there are careers overshadowed by others, and in the thread I explain why GK, especially post nerf, it’s one of those
I agree, I don’t think GK is bad, but it’s a little overshadowed and a little lacking in identity…
To be honest, the only fourth career that works as it should and is very thematic and strong is SOT.
the engineer and WP are very strange, basically operating on the basis of “spam” (I’ve already made several criticisms about this).
I believe the necromancer is the second best balanced, but needs some adjustments to some talents and mechanics.
and the GK, despite being good, is overshadowed and could receive some buff related to reducing the interval of the career skill by doing something, gaining attack speed, mitigation or even some buff to shields or mechanics with shields such as reflecting minigun and flame thrower
How and in what way?
Personally speaking, and this is subjective, GK have always been my least favorite DLC career by sheer virtue that it’s the most bland and impossible to do justice in this genre as it’s impossible to do mounted combat in this game, he’s just a holy swordsman. Also he should have been called a PALADIN, the hero version of GKs.
BUT… balance why he’s fine, on the strong side even. Those that overshadow him like the WP and OE are just broken OP because of their respective overtuned rework. Worst I feel OE slightly missed the mark even if FS seems to be in the right general track.
SotT is perfect and Necromancer needs more talents to support her identity as a Necromancer
Did you really have to remove the boss styling from BH?
Can’t we have a middle ground where the Glock deals far less damage with consecutive chaining shots on bosses and staggers them every odd shot instead of every time, but the chaining becomes a feature instead of a “long standing bug”?
Rampart, Unyielding and Warchief still can make this not work in CW and you can still do it in regular play, just not as quickly since Conc pot is and will be busted, so please just let us have the skill expression >:(
Oh, and I do really wonder when will Huntsman receive Assassin, THP on HS/crit talents like every other headshot-reliant careers have, as well as both Longbows getting QoL
Otherwise, elgi tears drank with pleasure, Engi bombs too stronk, follow-up patch needed, hopeful for the future
P.S. People who say GK is weak now need to stop drinking Lady’s bathwater. “MON DIEU I NEED TO SWING MY SWORDS MORE OFTEN NOW SACREBLEU” lmao
You can still chain shot bosses to death, but setup is harder and you have to learn to shoot chaos spawn on the move. So it should be ok in pre made, but QP idk, too many stars needs to be aligned.
