Ranged Hive Scum is everything Vet should have been

Immunity against shooters in Havoc. Better ammo economy with any weapon type. Auto-reloads on ultimate ability (a feature which got removed from Vet in the past). Extremely easy to play compared to sharpshooter/Exe-Stance Vet builds which either limit your mobility or require hitting heads to output decent damage (and still getting outperformed by staff Psyker 2x).

Rewards stealing every kill from teammates to prolong the ultimate, even stealing hordes from melee-oriented characters, which makes playing melee builds awful after you were so insistent on promoting melee play for the past two years.

In this old thread a year ago I’m literary saying:

Buff smokes by giving them 10% crit chance for players inside the cloud or 20% damage resistance… At worst you can rollback those numbers next update, where’s the harm? Give Executioner’s Stance 30% damage reduction against JUST shooters so it can see SOME play in Havoc, even with a change like that it’s gonna be a lesser version of Voice of Command.

In this thread I was one of the first people suggesting Exe Stance getting toughness regen and also the one who suggested them to merge Stealth talent nodes as one of the few players actually playing Stealth Vet (changes they did a few patches later):

The 2nd charge stealth node should be basekit, since for a much stronger and versatile VOC you only need 2 points, but for weaker Stealth you need 3. The node that provides damage buff when coming out of stealth should also last longer to make it middleground between having VOC and Exe Stance. Right now stealth provides only utility, some survavibility, and no damage (since cooldown is too high to spam it for damage buffs).

Exe Stance should increase toughness regen the longer you maintain it, rewarding players who can refresh the cooldown without losing the streak so to speak. Veteran doesn’t need the damage, they need survavibility in melee. Or give it its autoreload back.

It’s disgusting you put such insane ranged build behind a paywall (I say this as someone who has lvl 30 Hive Scum) after people complained about Vet losing it’s ranged prowess in the recent years and lots of people on the forum gatekept buffs for Exe Stance.

I’m not saying to nerf them. It’s just, the balancing for this game is so stupid. It tries to cater to everyone at the same time, and in the end it makes nobody happy. The devs buffed Ogryn and made them enjoyable to play, the next patch they nerf them but at the same time buff Psyker which was already stronger than Ogryn DPS-wise.

You gatekept Vets playing with ranged weapons, because it’s not healthy for the game, but then you introduce Hive Scum which is encouraged to steal every single kill from the team and they don’t even have a weakness outside of the BS stuff which kills every other character as well (lots of disablers, instakills, 20 armored enemies at the same time in tight area with nowhere to go back), because they have enough rending for armor, enough reload speed to keep up the ultimate, enough movement to escape melee, enough ammo.

Executioner’s Order of Arbites and Disrupt Destiny Gunpsyker were already superior to ranged Vet in terms of damage, now it’s one more build that completely overshadows ranged Vet.

If you decide to buff Psyker, then don’t nerf Ogryn. If you decide to introduce “a better Exe Stance with un-nerfed Survivalist”, then don’t “adjust” ranged Vet builds (btw they nerfed las weapons by moving Shocktrooper talent one row below, so you have to spend one more point to get it) and don’t force them into melee by limiting their ammo.

Selling people the solution to their grievances in the form of DLC class is very scummy.

15 Likes

i mean, its everything vet was

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desperado enhanced and the add-on nodes for it eating good, meanwhile vet picks between counter fire and ogryn marking(5→8 duration) for exe stance, and team highlighting. what even are we doing here?

Look how they massacred my boy!

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It’s insulting really. The melee properties should have been for Zealot and the ranged ones for Vet.

But no, they gimp those classes and leave them half baked and FS has the audacity to take all player suggestions for those classes and bundle them in a DLC class instead.

Insult to injury, we get no new missions since Dark Rituals. (Although I guess Excise Vaults felt new after being out of rotation for so long.

Oh and by the way, they’re still not backfilling missions which aren’t on the board anymore. It’s just that no one is complaining about it anymore because we got used to this mess.

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Vet is incredibly strong right now and has the best ranged options in the game. By all accounts, Hive Scum is kinda weaksauce in comparison.

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Vet is carried by VOC and grenade regen. I’ve played with Hive Scums in Havoc current season, and they’re very close to just completely remove Vet from Havoc runs as an anti-shooter and anti-special ranged unit. If golden toughness enivitably gets nerfed so it doesn’t prevent oneshots anymore or they nerf 5% return grenade talent (it’s the main source of infinite grenades, not the 60s talent), Vet’s gonna be weaker ranged unit than Hive Scum in every way other than maybe toughness regen.

Chem Grenades are already stronger than Frags, and Rocket Launcher is dangerously close to how efficient Krak’s currently are, so Vet’s grenade regen is the only thing holding together the blitz balancing between these two classes.

The best ranged options is and were always Psyker staves which don’t rely on ammo, unlike Vet whose best weapons, Bolter and Plasma, have awful ammo economy in Havoc 40 if you actually shoot shooters and gunners as fast as you can (most of Vet players would rather fight hordes in melee with duelling sword while gunners bombard their team). And even on auric soulblaze Psyker with a staff easily outdps Vets, given both players play about the same.

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Ranged Hive Scum is just horribly boring to me. No matter what weapon you pick, your entire time playing a mission is just entirely non-interactive: You run around and shoot things while approaching or kiting it. That’s literally it. There is never any different approach to any situation, you just run and shoot. It doesn’t matter what targets you face because you just play keepaway and shoot.
I could only stomach to try each weapon out. Like, it’s novel when you use the double barrel or dual pistols to destroy everything, but it wears off before the match even concludes and all I can think is “wow so this is literally all you do on repeat”

Horrible design I think personally and a prime example of shallow gameplay. To me it highlights why having ranged-only builds is a massive mistake in Darktide. This isn’t even to mention how unfun it is to play alongside, btw, that’s a whole other can of worms.

This is all because of one talent btw, Pickpocket. If there was some other ammo restore mechanic that actually necessiated you to play differently sometimes it would probably be fun. Pickpocket is braindead though.

PS: Strong agree with your point about the balancing making 0 sense. Hive Scum can have it, Vet can’t. Ogryn can’t be tanky AND have good weps, Arbites can. Psyker can do everything despite being a base class throwing the p2w angle out of the window. It’s like they have one expert for each class and none of them talk to eachother or know what the other is doing.

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If think about it - If anyone didn’t buy the Hive DLC. It would feel like for almost a year all they got was 1 map and plasma enemy.

“Content” was things in the game already spun into quickplay such as rituals, various enemy type spam, rotten armour. Then pickup rations, now ritual, captain and pickup items off floor again.

Going to be trend of picking up more things off the floor as events.

It really is lacking maps rollout. Rather than relying solely using modifiers/conditions.

8 Likes

I love Hive Scum but a Desperado build is basically first Assail iteration on steroid, it’s ridiculous

Only reason people don’t complain more is because of Havoc 40 where even the silliest builds get challenged, but Fatshark is too busy breaking the game to understand it’s not healthy one way or another

1 Like

I havnt played Scum, How does this mechanic work?

desperado, tap F ur immune to ranged considered “dodging” them all.

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Interesting, can the dodge apply to teammates in coherency ?

Every update must have a Veteran equal attention cake or they will fume.

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And to top it all off they got to go basically shirtless and show off those tats.

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thankfully no

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The thing is, with desperado you can spec for ability cooldown and use stims and addiction to further reduce cooldowns. You’re uptime on desperado during big fights can exceed the downtime. And desperado by itself gives unlimited ammo since you reload for free. Pickpocket isn’t even needed.

6 Likes

basically yeah lmao, just stimm up and dodge

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It would still be more interesting without pickpocket, because even with the massive uptime you could have on desperado, it’s not literally infinite. You would at least have to invest in the uptime for more free ammo, and you’d still have to control yourself a little bit outside of desperado.

Plus right now you can take rampage/crate and pickpocket and have the best of both worlds. It’s just a 3 point investment tops so you can literally hold down m1 during missions. Even shocktrooper vet builds have more investment than that to make the free-ammo-on-crit more efficient and it’s still not actually free.

To be honest I feel kind of silly even typing this down. Of course a talent that gives you 20% ammo on elite or special kill is OP, it’s all you do in this game. I know this, everyone knows this, Fatshark knows this, they put it in so the class sells. The problem is that it’s OP in a really stupid unfun way thats not even interactive. You might aswell just give them infinite blitzes and it would be as unfun and boring. They should at least stick to OP stuff thats interesting

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Yeah, even melee build is literally just spam melee without paying much attention to what you’re hitting or how.

As you say, tho, shooting build is just brain-dead, and it’s exactly why a “true ranged” gameplay style was never a thing. The shooting is not deep enough to make it engaging.

3 Likes

Simple solution, buff Veteran to where he was. This will do nothing for his survival abilities but will make him more fun to play. Also buff his weapons like Power Falchion and Lasgun. It doesn’t even have to be vertical buffs. Horizontal ones like "“No heat build up if you don’t hit an enemy” so you can just keep it on and not have your attention constantly on the gauge even out of the fight, and recoil control on the Lasgun.