Ranged enemies need to be heavily re-balanced

That’s it.
From how many of them can spawn at a time, from how much effing damage they do to both toughness and health, to the range to which they switch to melee.

This game does not have a decent cover system (and that’s good and fine btw) since it’s mostly geared towards hordes/close range combat even when using a ranged weapon.

I can understand Snipers being really dangerous and tricky: there’s only so many of them. But when you can find yourself faced to literally a wall (not a metaphore, a literal wall of shooters that spawned in a huge group) of firing muzzles that obliterates a squad of lvl 30 players in 2 seconds… well… It kinda becomes a different kind of game doesn’t it.

Shooters are the most dangerous enemy in the game. Much more dangerous than any other. And the way they are balanced and the way certain maps/covers work makes runs insufferable at times.


Melee enemies are trivial in comparison, or are even toughness-regen bags for some (Ogryn, Psyker with some staves).
As long as you have at least one horde-clear specialist on your team, they almost never are a problem.

Dreg shotgunners, on the opposite, are always the number 1 priority, because they will empty your whole toughness bar (and like 50 HP) with a single shot from 20 meters away. On Heresy, normal gunners are just as deadly if you get hit by an entire 3-shot burst.


Doesn’t match my experiance at all… is it your class?

They are pain the a…always scout new areas with Counterfire modified Volley Fire. If I don’t have Counterfire vet, I don’t enter new areas like I own them. When I do, it can end badly if you have no cover to grab.


Honestly, the deadliness of gunners wouldn’t be a problem, if only they didn’t have instantaneous target acquisition and perfect aimbot, capable of shooting off your hair or your toes that protrude from cover.


They do miss when you are sprinting and/or dodging…good luck if they catch you half way through doing something else you cannot interrupt.

agreed. as an ogryn main on heresy this is my problem with shooters:

  1. without my shield I can’t get close to enemy shooters without taking damage… and blocking my veterans vision (And they are better at dealing them) so melee is not an option

  2. Even at close range, some shooters who reach a few steps outside of my club range, keep shooting at me while backing away instead of changing to melee weapons for some reason.

  3. Ogryn doesn’t have high-accuracy weapons and some weapon that fits that role is GL so smoke from the explosion blocks teammates vision and blows enemies away, making aiming difficult.

  4. shotgun and stubber are not effective beyond 20 meters and barely hit anything that is not a horde within said 20 meters

In general I would leave to Vets and Psys to sort out most of trash shooters and hug a corner until then. Counterfire and bio-optic talents help a lot. In desperation stagger with grenade launchers and up close power maul. A risky move if they are spread out too much, especially if there is no cover to grab, but Ogryn isn’t great at fighting ranged enemies.

yeah, I’m well aware that ogryn isn’t very good at ranged combat.

But at the same time, in heresy difficulty shooter is half of the enemy.
I feel useless after clearing up the Horde. since Horde requires all team members to deal with it. it is a team’s burden.

and I need to stay back in cover waiting for my team to take out the shooter division because I can’t do anything that is an effective way to deal with it because my class is not designed to be?

I have to question myself in all gameplay: Am I doing well for the team?
and I think this will easily be answered by giving some guns to ogryn.
single-shot shotgun, semi-auto rifle, or just a simple revolver, something that when the enemy shooter and teammates are engaged all I need is a weapon that helps my team in range combat.

Ranged shooters are OP, mainly in heresy+. I was told that they’re supposed to switch to melee once in close range, but I’ve found this not to be the case in many instances.

I think the most annoying scenario is on heresy+ when shooters are littered in a horde. I can be within striking distance but not facing them while they still engage in shooting combat. Wouldn’t be so bad if their shots didn’t melt my toughness.

Yeah I think that is actually the problem too.
They literally act like aimbots with perfect head shots repeatedly and never miss. or squeeze shots through like an inch crack you can’t even see in cover.

When you have too many gunners with perfect aimbot aim it’s a bit much. Players miss, the gunners should too.

The gunners will completly miss their whole barrage of shots if you slide under or dodge right before they start shooting. Its not that hard. Of course if your just walking around like its a park they are gonna hit you and they should hit you. They dont have insane accuracy if your moving around constantly and properly.

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How many hours do you have in the game? I run a flamer and a thunder hammer in damnation games and my buddy runs a rumbler and power maul. We can and do duo damnation games.

It all comes down to 5 things:

  1. Positioning
  2. Ambushing shooter patrols
  3. Dodging
  4. Sliding
  5. Sprinting

Shooters certainly are dangerous but they’re really not that bad once you learn how to deal with them. If you find them so punishing it is likely because you are using malice tactics above malice difficulty. The game is just different when you get to damnation. Adapt in the emperor’s name.

No actually they do have perfect aim.
Have you ever watched a downed player near a group of gunners. Its ALL perfect full auto headshots and gunner spam even with Full Auto weapons. They definitely have unreasonably perfect accuracy when they shouldn’t.

Another way to see it, is watch a Veteran try to pop up and pick them off behind cover… its instant solid, consistent full auto head shots on him the second he pops up.

Sliding does work, but only while you have stamina and we’re not talking about not using cover… were talking about Too many Gunners with perfect aimbot aim they should not have. Stop making excuses for the inexcusable.

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Perhaps he should dodge while firing then.

Take +stamina curios
Mix in dodges
Mix in dodge slides
Use effective cover

They only have perfect aimbot against perfectly stationary targets that are down. Otherwise they have a tight cone of fire that can be disrupted by movement. So i see why this looks dumb but its kind of a non-issue.

I would greatly appreciate people not trying to nerf difficult and interesting enemies when damnation games are already too easy.


Dodging and firing hits nothing. I take my 70% mobility X12 into the meat grinder, stand next to the ammo crate, turn to the mauler and throw my sights up on him while dodging and it misses 60% of the time. The myriad of player handicaps in this game gives you next to no accuracy strafing with most weapons.

And yes they have 100% accuracy unless you are in slide or dodge state, or are in specifically non-fatigued stamina and running at an angle perpendicular to the incoming fire.

This means that in game, unless you are constantly sliding and dodging, the enemies have 100% accuracy. Its also very hard to take the notion of fighting these enemies as ‘challenging’ seriously. Its 100% a time sink, and a resources sink a lot of characters can’t commit to or totally lack the gear to take on in the first place (Ogryn). They’re tedious and the amount of shooter enemies encountered directly controls how much fun you were allowed to have. Because they suffocate movement in a Tide game. Imagine if Archers had hitscan arrows and appeared in mobs of 100. Nobody would consider that more difficult, just extremely tedious. That’s the current shooter situation.

Not far off a insert shooter game hard mode campaign where you constantly get pecked by shooters that are waiting for you to enter a combat zone. That is not a hardcore experience, only a grating and extremely drawn out excuse for difficulty. Especially with suppression making you need to just reposition constantly. Funneling enemies is a negative form of skill expression. Let me shoot them, let me fight.


I don’t mind ranged enemies where they’re at, but I agree it gets to be a lot to keep up if you don’t have someone geared to pick them off in rapid succession. Ogryn on T4 and T5 can be a lot of sprinting, sliding and knocking enemies over to keep from getting overwhelmed.

I’d personally rather see more working cover than fewer enemies though. I LOVE when I walk into a room and see a company of shooters surprised to see me before I unleash the beast on them.

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That’s one of the biggest issues with the ranged enemies. They don’t miss any of their shots unless you take evasive actions. Who the hell trained these commandos before they became Nurgle worshippers?

I suspect this is one of those situations where FS is trying to force us to use specific mechanics like sprint dodging, sliding and suppression.

Yes. Correct. Achieve new hieghts of skill. Your enemies are dangerous. You have all the tools you need.

You just described horde shooters. The enemy’s main threat is how they keep you busy until the specials surprise you or chip away at your resources. As for being an ogryn you absolutely can handle these situations. As stated i have a friend who handles shooter mobs with nothing but a rumbler and spicy flanks. Hell, i have a level 30 ogryn with blue sub 330 gear and i can handle shooters just fine.

This isn’t vermintide. Its time to adapt.