I am well aware of why Quickplay is in the game and the reasons behind it. I’m not trying to discourage that.
That said… it doesn’t make any sense to me that Quickplay and the associated rewards are excluded from private groups (1-3 players + bots).
There are a number of reasons why my buddies and I don’t really like playing with random/public groups: in a private group, we know we can do whatever the hell we want, play with non-meta classes and weapons, try out weird builds, sometimes screw around or afk in-between maps without bothering or wasting anyone else’s time. In addition, I usually host due to the fact that my internet connection is much better/stable than my friends’, and with Quickplay that simply isn’t an option.
We regularly complete 3 tome/2 grim runs on Champion. Without the Quickplay bonus, the only way to get an Emperor’s Chest is by finding 2 Loot Dice and hoping Ranald’s is generous enough to reward a full tier. If no Loot Dice are found in the map, it is virtually impossible to receive an Emperor’s. Just for the simple fact that our group isn’t a full 4-stack or open to public, the game decided we don’t deserve 50% of a chest tier.
This feels punishing, considering:
- The game ISN’T any easier with bots. In fact, one could argue it is significantly harder on Champion and Legend with bots.
- The game doesn’t scale difficulty based on the amount of players.
- We are completing all of the same objectives as any other group.
- A full 4-person group is already inherently a private group, since no one else can join.
So why can a full 4-man group reap the rewards of quickplay, but a 2-3 player private group cannot? Neither group is open to public players (unless someone happens to drop out mid-map).
The first Vermintide, by comparison, didn’t give certain players one less dice roll or worse dice rolls, based on the way they queued into a game.
It just seems so arbitrarily restricting.
Yeah, I completely agree, quickplay already encourages playing a random map, it doesn’t NEED to also involve random players.
I can sort of understand the concern that it might make the community more insular, but it’s not like the majority of the player-base is suddenly going to prefer playing with bots.
It sure would be nice if Fatshark could maybe acknowledge this portion of the playerbase, however small it may be.
I can understand if the game rewarded you with a little something for filling up games in progress so those players had a better chance at winning, but normally Quickplay just gives you a random map from the beginning, which is why parties constantly kill themselves to get a map that doesn’t have “Hale”, “Nest”, or “Skitter” in the name.
“I am well aware of why Quickplay is in the game and the reasons behind it. I’m not trying to discourage that.”
I don’t think you are fully aware as allowing the perk in private matches goes against what it is trying to do. encourage quicker matchmaking by having more people in the matchmaking pool with less private lobbies.
I would agree with you, but as I stated in my original post, 4-player groups can also use this perk, and these groups have no effect on the matchmaking pool either.
I wouldn’t mind at all if the Quickplay bonus was XP, as everyone would receive the same reward, but those choosing to participate in Quickplay would acquire Commendation chests (and level up) much faster.
But (potentially) locking out the best reward from certain players simply because they prefer to play in a private group, despite completing the challenges in every map the same way as any other group is where I start to take some issue with it.
but calling yourself private and having enough players to fill a public lobby aren’t really the same.
I understand your attempted argument that neither allows someone to be matchmade into the group, but one is just because max players have been reached. the other is because a player has chosen not to allow the reason quick play is encouraged in the first place.
This topic was widely discussed during the beta, but devs just can’t understand, how totally stupid is idea make loot depends on the matchmaking options. Yes, OP, i am in the same situation, I’m playing mostly with my friends and bots, and i don’t wanna see random people in my lobby. But, in the devs opinion, my choice of how i want to play the game is “inferior” for their game, so they want to force people like us to play a way they think more “appropriate”.
Right now we have a sort of solution though: if you are in group with 3 friends, you can start the quickplay, and right after loading the map, set it to private via Tab menu. You can also kick (or just ask to leave) a random player if he joined your lobby before it. Is that bad, inconvenient way? Maybe, but it’s the only way devs left to us, so kicked people should blame the devs for it.
I think the issue here is that the quickplay bonus is just about necessary to get consistent emperor chests.
But, I can see the Dev’s view that they don’t want to make the community more insular. How about:
-Quickplay available in private.
-Additional PUG bonus for 50% bar. This would reward you for going with strangers and completing a level with little to no coordination. It would also mean a PUG group could 100% get emperor is they did 2 grim / 3 tome / 2 die. Which is random in itself, so not too bad.
Really? So, you want punish players, who can cooperate better (playing with friends, managing your loadout in dependance with your party), and encourage all to abandon our teammates we know and play with brainless random people in order to get a better loot? I just can’t figure it out, how someone can think a way like this. It’s absolutely ridiculous.
Playing with friends in closed lobbies never made a community insular. And, frankly speaking, it’s not a bad thing when different kinds of people stick together and apart from others - if they do, it means they have a reasons to do so. Bad thing is when you try to enforce people to play with persons they don’t want to play - you will kill the community way faster with this.
That’s a viewpoint. I didn’t see it as punishing players for playing with friends, but as providing an incentive for people to give a chance to their fellow players, instead of just leaving empty spaces as bots.
I don’t know if this is true. Take League of Legends for example. It implements multiple mechanics to “force” people to play with randoms and it has one of the biggest (if not the biggest) gaming communities around. So its community is far from dead and it is just one of the examples of this in the industry. I’d actually wager the exact opposite: If LoL was solely based on custom games without matchmaking “forcing” groups, it would’ve been dead a long time ago.
I don’t think it’s a proper comparsion here. LoL is very different game. In a first place, it’s PvP, and PvP can’t exist without public matchmaking. But here, in Vermintide, it’s much more important for you to form party with people you know and can trust to.
For being successful in runs? Sure. I just don’t think majority of the player base is willing to form groups of players. Also a casual player will leave the game for a while and come back later. There’s no guarantee the “party” would be there anymore (assuming it too was formed of casual players). To integrate the casual back into the game the requirement cannot be that he finds people to play with via social means, because most people just aren’t gonna do that. This is where a robust matchmaking system comes in: They click a button and they are in a game. Elitist players should not be able to lord over the casual in a matchmade game either: For example no kicking due to low game time or “wrong items”, because with enough abuse the casual just won’t come back.
Entering a matchmade queue means you agree to be matched with randos.
So I disagree: A matchmaking system is very integral for retaining and reintegrating players both of which are essential to maintaining a healthy number of active players. I don’t think such a system can be shown to kill the community, especially if the option for private lobbies exist.
Just did a legend run with a friend with 2 bots, it’s easier than with most random players i came across in public games. We even managed to get 3 tomes by just shooting bots until they were out of healing draught / medpacs. So yeah, bots are sometimes more useful than some people trying to get carried over a legend run.
Quickplay is a way of rewarding people to play together and an easy way to find an ongoing game.
You should be more rewarded in doing so and I m fine with the current system.
IMO we shouldn’t even be able to switch a quickplay to private once we’re in game (but then when someone disconnects he just loses his slot and cannot join back if he got replaced so I m a bit mixed on that subject)
While i agree with you about the devs shouldn’t prioritize old hardcore players over casuals, the opposite is true as well: core players, who already found a constant teammates and prefer to play in closed lobbies, shouldn’t be deprieved in terms of loot as well. Casual players tend to leave the game pretty soon, and they don’t involved in community as much as old fans anyway, but if you make something that take away dedicated veterans, your game will become abandoned eventually.
I’d just be happy with a “Random Map” option. No extra reward needed. Just sometimes I don’t know what map to play, and tend to gravitate to the same ones, but then when I Quick Play I end up enjoying whatever map I get most of the time.
i agree with this wholeheartedly, the ability to lazily press a button to hop into a game where people are actively trying to finish levels is very important.
These systems definitely won’t KILL communities, they encourage growth.
Punishing private groups who work well as a team and on voice comms is a really really stupid move.
private groups can quickplay. if they’re really that good they will mow through all random content.