The Quickplay Penalty

Quickplay Bonus is a penalty in my eyes; you’re not given the bonus when playing outside it.
I’m not too sure why this was considered a good idea in a co-op game. The core of the problem with the quickplay bonus truthfully lies in the already broken, disappointing loot system. What I mean by that is there is no truly guaranteed way of getting Emperor lootboxes. Also there is a pitiful amount of content and the content we have now was clearly lazy. However, playing quickplay gives you an entire lootbox level upgrade. This is a pretty big deal considering the only “guaranteed” way of getting an Emperor vault is by beating Legend Skittergate and getting lucky by finding the two RNG lootdice on top of doing an all tome and grim run for a whopping 5 lootdie, 3 tomes, and 2 grims. The rest is up to Ranald. And I’m sure we’ve all had our fair experiences of being cucked hard and put away wet as you pray for the last tick of that upgrade.
But I digress, all of this isn’t made any better by Quickplay having a bonus. I would really love to see it removed and have tomes and grims be worth more. A simpler solution that would involve less coding would simply be for the developers to keep it permanently active. But I’m sure most of us would like to see the lootbox upgrade values for the tomes and grims up’d a bit in general. At least the ‘simpler solution’ could be a bandaid fix to appease loot grinders, completionists, and people who just don’t want to play certain levels much or at all.

The true problem with Quickplay bonus is it penalizes completionists, lootgrinders, speedrunner, ect. It’s a faulty system that jams people together regardless of team composition and any goals they may have in mind such as needing to beat a level for their cosmetic or doing an Okri challenge. Too many times have I played games were nobody has decent boss damage and any boss spawn can mean trouble. It doesn’t incentivize co-op gameplay. A detailed lobby browser where you could write a mini description if you wanted would be hands-down better. That system has already been done 14 years ago by Diablo 2 and to great effect. I would love to see the existing lobby browser improved in such a way actually. But even with that improvement it wouldn’t change the fact that playing outside of Quickplay would mean you miss out on an entire lootbox upgrade in a wonky loot system.

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But I wanna know what other people think.

Should the Quickplay Bonus stay?

Is there a good reason for ‘incentivizing’ players to play a certain way in a game they paid money for and that has no leaderboards?

Optional Philosophy question: Is incentive, at least on some level(s), synonymous with coercion?
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Here are some arguments I’d suggest not making because I can already rebuttal them. However I am truly powerless to stop you. So here’s some scenarios of what that’d look like. Feel entirely free to skip this part as it’s intended to be slightly humorous, however do so at your own risk of looking like and idiot and getting chewed out if you post one of these stupid arguments.
I don’t want quickplay removed; I prefer pressing quickplay over using the lobby browser!
That’s all fine and dandy. More power to you. I don’t want Quickplay removed entirely either. You can read better if you stop imagining every block of text as some social contest where the goal is to sound like the most correct and be the most ‘composed’.
Quickplay is faster than the lobby browser.
Re-read the first scenario. And also if you are one of those people who feels that joining a random game through the server browser is somehow much more exhausting than joining a random game from Quickplay. Leave the suggestion forums forever; if you’re too lazy to click more than once you shouldn’t be wasting all your precious energy typing responses here in the first place you braindead, fanboy-neckbeard-keyboardwarrior amalgamation of a human being.
I don’t want people speedrunning and glitching the game! That’s no fun and we should play ‘normally.’
“Stop liking things that I don’t like!” Real solid argument there. If anything you should be backing what I’m saying so you could make sure you don’t end up playing with those people accidentally. Barring that your only option is genocide for all people who don’t like playing the way you like to play. But hey, you might be in luck there; fascism is all the rage these days!
I’m just here to argue a dumb point and defend it to the end of the world because I have a general disdain for people who complain about the game so I read anger into all their posts so I can dismiss their point as uninformed due to them being ‘upset’.
Hey at least you know what you are, I can respect that.

Do you know Vermintide 1?

You just got 1 item and was pretty hard to get the best one there with some dices… V2 is an item-heaven next to it…

I agree, that the QP-bonus penalizes some players out there, but it´s quite necessary in my eyes. A lot of ppl would play the same (easiest map) over and over again and some maps like skittergate won´t be played any time.

This is a coop- and not a speedrun-game

Although there isn´t even a remarkable gap between emperor´s vault and (i dont remember the name actually xD).

Ranald is everywhere, not only in Ranald´s gift.

I don´t know how many hours do you played, but the QP-bonus is just not necessary to get red´s + cosmetic or even some good stuff in this game. You get tons of loot here, you don´t even need…

EDIT: The game is about fun, not only about loot so… I would be fine with quickplay only, because more and other maps are more variety, than rushing the same map over and over again for a f* treasure.

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Kind of a bunch of moot points and sort of falls into stuff I already rebuttal’d.

“Stop liking things I don’t like!” I have had great times co-op speedrunning with randoms I have met in pub games.

Irrelevant to compare the two kinda; entirely different loot systems. I enjoyed VT1’s loot system more than this games because it let me work towards things. It was still stupid with some weapons having dumb traits and such on them like crit on a red fireball staff in the bounty board. Also sure you get a lot of items, but it’s not like many people want or need 7 red trinkets, 5 red necklaces, and 5 red charms.

Re-read, I am a competionist. It’s not about need, it’s never been about need. No one needs to play this game.

Nope, only half a level, unless it’s different on XBox or it was changed recently. So not that significant, really, except maybe on full-book Champ runs.

Otherwise, I’m kind of divided on how Quickplay works. I can see its point in getting people to play with strangers, and to not only choose certain levels to play. But I also dislike that it’s basically denied to anyone not wanting to play with a full group and/or randoms. I’d like to use Quickplay just for getting out of deciding what map to play, but as my group usually consists of three people who prefer to keep to our own, Quickplay is rarely an actual option.

So it’s a mechanic that (in your opinion, at least) penalizes those who want to play a co-op game alone, or in a very specific style (that really require a ready-made, well-coordinated group anyway). I think that the playstyle intended by the devs (that is, co-operation and decent pace, afaik) should be encouraged, but I’m not sure if the Quickplay bonus is the right way either. I’ve no actual idea to replace it, though.

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I think it’s fine. It challenges you to play maps that you would normally skip due to various reasons. And let’s be honest, the bonus loot level isn’t even that high to begin with.
To me QP isn’t really that much about the bonus loot. I like the RNG aspect of not knowing what I’ll face in the upcoming match… and if I get some bonus reward for it sure. But why reward those who do not want to challenge themselves and just grind the hell out of one map (HoM).
If you want to complete some challenges, go ahead and turn the QP off. You should not be concerned about the bonus anyways imo since that’s not the reason why you are doing it.

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Edit nah you’re right it’s only half. I was thinking it was a full one because “Mission Completed” is also half and that’s a freebie so while I am wrong I guess you could still say it’s effectively a full upgrade.
Source: https://youtu.be/vCjs2pOyCog?t=1354

I agree with both of these things. However you shouldn’t be reading my suggestion as the end of Quickplay. I don’t want it to go anywhere. I just want equal standing lootwise when me and my friends want to work on legendary cosmetics for certain careers. Lackluster as they may be; Okri’s challenges are undeniably a big part of the game and intended to be so by the devs.

Re-read the section about improving the lobby browser to see why this isn’t a problem. And furthermore if these people truly want to play alone then they’d have little to no problem setting up lobbies and waiting for others who want that very specific playstyle.
The bottom line is all these forms of “playing the game” could and should be able to coexist. Who in your life came up to you as a kid and told you, you were playing with a toy wrong when you were enjoying yourself?

Ah now this is an interesting argument. You feel you deserve something more for being able to complete a level despite going into it possibly completely unprepared? You don’t control your randoms that join through quickplay so like I said, you roll Skittergate with a Footknight, Ironbreaker, BattleWizard, and Zealot then you’re in for a fun a time, right?
I feel like going further down this logic then the most fun thing for you should be the game as hard as possible? So why not purposely handicap yourself?

If you believe QP isn’t really that much about the bonus loot that just your opinion. And if that is your opinion then why are you in a thread about the QP loot bonus? Shouldn’t matter to you at all if I get what I want and ‘can grind the same level over and over’ because this game has no leaderboard and your bragging rights are imaginary. There is no reason to penalize people for playing any certain way.

Mission Success, a Tome or two Dice all give half a level too, and through those and other combinations, it can and will make the difference in loot level. A full-book run with no Dice (on Quickplay) nets a General’s, and a Lord map with both Dice found (or Skittergate with one Die) guarantees Emperor’s. An assumption here, inferring from your words, but with two Tomes, the Quickplay indeed changes the chest from potential Merchant to a guaranteed one. So even that half-level will have some impact, but alone it does hardly anything, as the quality difference between one chest and the next isn’t that large.

And btw, I’m on PC too; sometimes that should be specified.

Personally, I’m really more annoyed by Quickplay only being public (unless the host changes status in-map) than the reward. To me, the reward is more just a slight bonus.

Ye challenge is fun, the harder the better.

Since that’s what forums are about, present differen opinions and discussing stuff. I merely said what I though about this matter, as did you.

Ah this argument… there is a certain way the devs want this game to be played. You could just use this argument to defend cheaters. Hey… this game does not have any leaderboards anyway, and it’s coop, so why does it matter if they break the game by cheating anyways? They just want to have fun the way they like it. Why penalize their fun with anticheat programs etc. -because that’s not the way the devs want us to play this game.

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And because people cheating will affect other people’s experience even in a co-op game, and likely negatively. With simple playstyle differences (speedrunning, loot hunting…) the effect on others isn’t necessarily as significant and certainly not quite as negative (unless one side is rude about things), but it’s still an effect.

Yeah I edit’d my original reply. You were right about it only being half. Was lumping it and mission complete’d together.
And yeah I can agree mostly with what you’re saying. I’m just here fight for my equal rights to that slight bonus.
Viva speedrunning, metagaming, and goofing around out of the map for giggles.

Well thanks for the ‘contribution.’

What a crock of crap. First off, quote the devs saying how this game should be played.
Secondly, how I play this game doesn’t affect you.
Cheating and cheat programs could certainly affect the online experience. I don’t know why you’d argue this dumb point unless…

Quick Play is a system to stop people running the same map over and over again (Horn of Magnus anyone?) but the reward feels a little… weak.

Having Daily Events that include playing certain maps or acts would be a more rewarding way of stopping people running Against The Grain as fast as they can. I’d prefer buffs for completing contracts (as in VT1)

…grumble, grumble… contract board… mutter…

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No problem.

There’s no need for any official quote. The QP bonus in its current state is there for a reason. Had the devs wanted to give bonus loot chance for non-QP matches, they would’ve done so from the beginning.

I merely applied your argument to a more hyperbolic scenario. But the point of it still stands. The devs don’t want us to play one map over and over again, that’s why there is the QP bonus: to discourage people from playing one or two specific maps for quick loot (like Horns of Magnus in V1) and push them into more challenging maps… and yes- they said this during one of their streams.

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You asked mate…
Just calm down a lil bit and take care for other opinions mate. Noone wishes you any bad staff. We just give you reasons, why it´s still ok and maybe, why the dev´s designed it that way.

It´s a lil reward for ppl who manage (mostly with randoms) random maps and not rushing the same map over and over again. Actually the reward is “bad” at all and not even the loot worth. At the moment you´re going to play for fun only, you´ll probably understand that. That´s all and i´m fine with that. (I don´t even play quickplay that much, because i need maps for Okri.) If you think it´s unfair… ok, maybe the devs take care about it… You could even say it´s unfair, to get skittergate/athel 3 times in a row on QP. ^^

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Lets not forget how you can almost safely bet when you hit “quickplay” that you’ll get Skittergate. Nothing funner than skittergate for the fifth time in an hour.

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I see what you two keep saying. However neither of you can defend the dev’s point for “how a game should be played”
There is no “How a game should be played” I bought it and I own it. There are no leaderboards or bragging rights.
There is no reason to incentivize or coerce players to play random maps with random people.

As for the “calm down mate” I am always generally this vocal and opinionated.

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The penalty about quickplay is random people in quickplay.

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IMO, QP bonus should be replaced. If all of you make it back (4 heroes) then you should get that half of a bar.

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Yeah there needs to be way more reward for completing a level. Especially with all four heroes alive. I’d be fine with that idea or making tomes/grims more worth it.
I had the idea to make Ranald’s reward to stem from a calculation of the party’s end score + a percentage of their personal score. That would be way better than an RNG cuckold system.
I’ve got a lot of thought put into this idea. One day I’ll make a thread about fixing Ranald’s blessing of a curse.

Chasing green circles is probbably the worst way to reward players, in some cases it promotes people risking everything to top the charts. Other than that it’s a solid idea. :slight_smile:

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