What I do not get…
at least in my guts Veteran - Sharpshooter should not have a power sword. It is more a Squad Leader/ Sergeant or Commissar weapon, not one of a “Sharpshooter”.
Also many guns should not be available for the “Sharpshooter” either - on the other hand he has no real sharpshooter gear. Smoke bombs, mines, One-Shot-High-Power-Guns, different combat knives, … THIS should be equipment/ options for the Sharpshooter.
Right now he feels more like a “gunner”. In that sense the power sword is fitting, but I am still not sure he should have it.
Also, why is his special a plasma gun? For a sharpshooter? It would make more sense to give him a 50cal rifle or a semi-auto high-calibre precision rifle.
I sure hope when the other classes for the Vet release he looses some of the “none sharpshooter” gear.
Chainsword shouldn’t HAVE a special. It should just be on. In all the lore they have a throttle like a motor bike. You hold it down as you swing.
(Okay, it SHOULD have, but it should be something other then an on switch. Like a chain reversal, which is in the lore. You can reverse chain at any time to fling something away from you.)_
No, Veteran is one with experience, this does not need to be a sergeant.
Either coming from the real-world military or the lore, only a sergeant or similar -important is the RANK/ STATION- has access to power weapons (in the real world the equivalent would be access to special equipment, better scopes, other variants of the standard issued weapon, …).
A Veteran Sharpshooter is exactly that: an (highly) experienced sharpshooter.
Therefore things like Power Sword and some automatic weapons should be taken away and more appropriate weapons given (more semi-automatic with rather high damage).
(Because the anti-armour/ anti-heavy weapon of a Sharpshooter should be a sniper or similar, not a power sword - a gunner, Sergeant or similar would be a different story)
Eventually they caved and made armor far less of a roadblock in VT2, if I remember right there was even a large number of weapons that couldn’t damage super armor with no crit on launch VT2. Hopefully we get a similar situation here because carapace armor is a laughable roadblock. Even a headshot with Ogryn’s grenade box only does some 400 damage to a crusher, and currently the only way he does any appreciable damage to them is through bleed. The DPS difference even vs the +50% ogryn damage feat in the same row is a joke. This also applies to most weapons, relying on bleed damage to inflict anything at all, most needing lacerate to even have bleed.
To call the current melee system unsatisfying would be an understatement.
In the real world most sgts would have less (except coms gear) because their job usually focuses on management, not being a champion. The regular troops would get the serious weapons since their job is on the line, though it is true the more experienced ones and those in elite units are trusted with more and more. AKA, the vets. Because they’ve proven themselves.
(I’ve met people who thought it was weird the officers didn’t carry the grenade launchers since they were ‘higher rank.’ I did not have success explaining the reasons…)
And for that reason, sergeants as a rule are veterans because it takes time to move up. The Romans called soldiers on their second or more enlistment evocati and considered them absolutely vital to keeping the legions effective.
Having a powersword would fit any veteran, especially a veteran who made Sargent, and it would fit anyone in the service of the inquisition.
And to be even more specific, Carlos Hathcock was a Gunnery Sargent and Chris Kyle was a Chief Petty Officer. So two real world snipers had the correct rank to apply Sargent perks.
I am sure/ hope they will take it away once the class e.g. “Veteran - Gunner” or “Veteran - Squad Leader” hits the game.
For now it is “needed” to give the game options, because they could not get enough classes ready for release/ they needed to turn back to the class-system which they wanted to trash.
Still, power weapons do not fit sharpshooters, the gameplay style should not warrant the use of them. Range combat. That’s their mission.
Ogryn with a cleaver can do the same as a power sword with less risk. Psyker with a Void Staff can do the same in a straight line. Not sure about a Zealot equivalent. Things have strengths and weaknesses. Not sure why everyone has such tunnel vision on the power sword alone.
Flamer works, but flamer isn’t fun. A big issue is zealot sucks.
That’s really it. Zealot sucks in pretty much every respect. The flamer is slow and feels meh to use, the thunder hammer is hot garbage, which leaves the evisorator as the only interesting thing about the class, and the evisorator is okay but just okay, and suffers from most of the same problems as the other two chain weapons.
On top of that the zealot’s perks are almost all focused on losing health, which sucks though I’ve known some people who were extremely good at making it work… though it’s kind of a crazy thing to do. Even IRL berserkers would perform better if they didn’t get wounded and either relied on being crazy to scare the enemy into in action or died after the fight. Only real reason not to wear as much armor as you could get was to be light weight, and most armor didn’t weigh much anyway.
So we have a class that relies largely on not having HP whose main weapons make you slow and occasionally stun lock you while you are trying to dodge around like a jack rabbit on crack into the gunsights of the vets and ogryn who are thinking ‘screw it, if he’s in my gunsight he’s getting shot.’ (Seems like FF is pretty low though,) but they still set off barrels near your bouncing behind which makes the class most likely to be getting picked up after a hard fight the zealot.
Yeah, some of you can run the class really well, but most can’t. Not with the anchors attached and the lack of anything good.
Seriously, I can make a whole horde disappear with half of the clip of the flamer with zealot including the 4 ragers hiding inside said horde on damnation, and you guys say that Power sword is too good against hordes? I can’t stop laughing really.
Let us just avoid the over-nerf situation that happened after the VT2 release that made weapons unusable on dif 4 because they hit all the right breakpoints on dif 3 and buff some of the utter crap that’s 75% of the weapon selection currently in game
Becasue ppl generally want their chosen class/wpn to be the best… I personnaly find all classes pretty good at dealing with the tasks they are meant to.
Even in random games (if not match in progress) you can ask what ppl are using, and take a weapons set that is more suitable for this or that.
Ah, but they are “Vets - Sharpshooter”, not “Vets - Jack of all trades” or “Vets - Run and Gun” or “Vets - The Powerhouse”.
They are called “Veteran - Sharpshooter”. Shooter, like shooting with weapons. Bullets, lasers or all kinds of “bolts” - preferable from something which can be used with some precision (cue: "sharp"shooter).
Not driving melee weapons through the eye of the enemies.
Also sharpshooters are no “champions” either, so if Sergeants or such just have what they need to focus on their “job”, why is the same not true for the specialist, the Sharpshooter?
Not to mention that my Sharpshooters in the tabletop also never had them, regardless how “Veteran” they were.
Gaunt’s Ghosts? Yeah, I would grant them power swords or e.g. Catachan Fighters. Both are no “Veteran - Sharpshooter” like in Darktide, thou.
Anyway. I am not against power swords for Vets per se, I just think it should be another class which gets them. So long there is only one I do not really care; but once there several I quite hope the Sharpshooter looses access to them.
What do you mean Zealots sucks, this is a very good and balanced class imho, with plenty of options to go either specialist/elite hunting, horde clear or both. Their weapon selection is also backing this up. For me personally it is most versatile class, with toughness replenish ult.
In regards to anti-armor wpns, are ppl in this thread avoiding to mention the Thunder Hammer on purpose or what ?
Yeah tell me how that Flamer will serve you on Damnation when you are left alone and there are 2 snipers, Reaper and gunners 100+ meters from you while you melee with horde.
Flamer is only good as long as there are others covering long range sniping.
Power Sword is good ALWAYS. There is no downside to Power Sword pretty much. Flamer has downside, it sucks when nobody else is there to snipe. Also when you are pinned down with range trash mobs your flamer won’t help much. On Damntion it’s important to be able to clutch when needed. Different story if you play with reliable pre-made.
I play Zealot a lot and I only take Flamer with my friends when someone else on Vet is sniping. With Randoms I go with Bolter or MK XII Lasgun so when I have to clutch or my “snipers” die I can deal with long range enemies
Thunder hammer suck ass on Diff 4-5 cause it’s unreliable to hit what you want with special attacks when you have horde, 5 maulers, 3 crushers, bulwarks and every elite is surrounded by tons of trash mobs eating you special power attacks. Plus it’s too slow to clutch and has too small mobilty to kite/avoid range attacks.
There is a reason why Combat Knife and Atax Axe are most used Zealot weapons on Diff 5. They have high mobilty and high killing speed on elites/carapace armor with crit bleed build. Eviscerator with Cleave build is also good, better than thunder hammer becasue its faster, more mobile and has better moveset but it relies heavy on traits you get to make it good on Damnation. But currently Knife and Axe works best with Zealot due to how Damnation works.
Here’s a picture on how to throw a sword at someone with good accuracy from 1400.
Even so, the term sharpshooter is really a bit loose. It doesn’t specifically mean sniper, though it can. It actually comes from the Sharps rifle, which was the rifle of choice for marksman in the middle 1800s, but because it sounds cool it survived long beyond the sharps.
Now, you can have a sharpshooter almost anywhere in the infantry. You could have a recon team, or a sniper team, or just a designated marksman with a DMR in a normal infantry platoon. I used to swtor with a guy who carried an M-14 in the recent wars on terror. An M-14 after 2000! Set up as a DMR with a big scope mind you, but still an M-14.
So we have a trooper who might be anywhere in the Guard… and elite unit is one of the options for background… and in an elite unit he might be called upon to both snipe and fight in melee…
And thus would have experience with a power sword.
@Benny89 of course you are correct from that perspective. I know you contribute a lot to this discussion and other ones on this Forum and I respect your take on things in Tides.
But isn’t the idea of this game not to be the last man standing, or rather if you are, you are against insurmountable odds ?
Not sure if indication of viability should be ability to solo highest tier on basically day 1.
Not on Damantion. Same on Cata. The way “meta” for “everyone” (meaning random matches mostly) works on highest difficulty in tide games (again, unless very good premade) is that you have setups for everyone that can deal with anything. So melee that has good cleave and anti-armor and range that has good special/elite killing with close/mid/long range capabilities. Sure, it’s possible to solo even with sub-optimal but that is decreasing your odds of success, right?
In V2 every setup was like that when you play with randoms as it’s really common you have to clutch solo or duo. If you pigeon hole yourself with randoms on “close quarter build” and then everyone dies and you are alone on open area? Tough luck. So when you play with randoms you should always aim for setup that covers everything that can be thrown at you on highest difficulty.
Again, looks different with pre-made on discord that plays together well.
