I only knew, that not understanding concepts in this life is fine. And it is completely ok, if we dont know how some things work in this world. Personally, If i dont understand something, i try to dig some info about the subject. But putting twisted meaning behind other person words, only because you feel like it, thats a “wild” thing for sure.
yeah okay lmao. so if i tell you that you’re probably an 80 iq mouthbreather (hypothetically, I’m not saying that of course) then it’s just me acknowledging that it’s fine if you’re different
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Power maul is trash, what A tier? Zealot got crusher that does all you wrote 1000% times better, power maul is trashiest melee weapon on ogryn and maybe in whole game.
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Twin stubbers even best one, not as good as was before rework, i’ve seen ogryns in havoc with it, they didn’t do much.
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Run and gun definetely not it on kickback, i used it, changed to full bore and never looked back.
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Keep Shooting, meh, maybe for gun ogryn or some mixed that uses lucky bullet keystone, without Point-Blank Barrage and with kickback/rumbler, otherwise i fail to see profit. I will never take it for melee builds.
About everything else i either agree or don’t care enough to write about anything else.
Yeah, there’s no issues in what curios you desire… Personally, I love Toughness, Combat Ability Regeneration & Stamina Regeneration on Oggy. Since Toughness is a bit broken it seems at least for me better in Havoc because obviously your Toughness is nerfed & you need as much as possible for sure, so it is a bit more viable, I suppose… I can totally see that being a valid argument. But honestly, never had issues like x3 Health in Havoc either. x3 Health is for me in my eyes makes you a bit more tanky like I can take much more punishment in a game for a longer duration of time if I’m being let’s say a bit sloppier in my gameplay. It is a safety net more or less which sure; that can create some bad habits along the way, but ohh well… I mean if somebody has been playing for so long that you can really go with anything at the end of the day & be totally fine. I haven’t really seen too much in the way of really great arguments against pure Health besides sucking up an entire Medi-kit, but I mean, even then… You cannot be too dense enough to just stand there in it for the entire duration lol… You just got to know when to get out of it for the others to slurp it up. My solution is let everybody heal first then I step in it, pretty simple you know. I just find it incredibly silly a statement saying that it’s wrong to play with Health or not viable. It blows my mind.
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that helped me deal around the mistakes of randoms easier in many situations and keep me on my feet for longer in many a match :thumb
add my own to that and all in all its a tool i prefer to get my personal best result.
i dont trust in what randoms do in a match, nor can i make any significant influence on their decisions, hence i plan for “failure” and bring said safety net 
add to that a very aggressiv playstyle and said tool became my favorite, simple as.
theres tons of viable builds, if they dont suit with what i’m comfortable though, it wont do me much good.
same reason i prefered free weights to machines in the gym.
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Yeah, I was actually going to say something similar. 3x Health also helps with unseen circumstances too. If things get really heated or you’re pinned down with that extra Health on top you can survive pretty crazy situations as well where if I was pure Toughness, I might be dead even faster honestly. I don’t think people see how important Health is too because his pool makes it even larger. Like, with Health, I do feel if you’re more aggressive it helps if you’re just charging right in there like a monster. It’s like bringing condoms for extra protection if you’re being hot & heavy with the Heretics (but not literally) lol. Yeah, that’s also a thing… If I have to play in pubs, I don’t trust anybody like if they’ve got my back. The extra Health is like an insurance policy with crappy teammates lol. But If I’m any other class, I got x2 toughness & x1 Stamina because that’s just the meta with the others basically. Ogryn is just different because obviously he’s a larger target taking more chip of course. The others are just more agile, so chip isn’t too much of an issue in that regard. I’ll still always argue that pure Health is completely viable, 100%. As long as your Toughness threshold is like maybe between 140-200, you’ll be honestly more than fine in fights. Like, before the rework I was at 150-165 Toughness & 579 Health. I was rocking the sht out of that & doing just fine.
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- Why are we comparing Zealot weapon to Ogryn weapon? Power maul deals more dps compared to Bully2 + got bulwark opening tech on top of that. So why is it trash, because its not to your liking? Its not the best, in comparisson with Bully3 and Krourk4, but id say its between A and B Tiers for sure.
- Completed H39 on full PBB+BLO+Twin stubber ogryn just yesterday, now its possible and even viable because of ammo buff in Havoc 2.0, but you are on a Veteran slot because of ammo consumption. Its even more potent vs bosses, because in the video i was using “Charmed reload” instead of “Overwhelming Fire”.
Here you can see, that its doing ok. Twitch - Kickback is super potent gun, so blessings dont matter much. If you enjoy something different, feel free to do so and adapt to your playstyle.
- Ehmmmm “Keep shooting” is mentioned only in ranged section of the guide for Kickback and Rumbler. I will never use it in any of my melee builds, because there are soo many good nodes besides it. Maybe you looked up at different person build.
If you switched to all Toughness curios, would you not be on Clearance 40 anymore?
Doesn’t really make a lot of sense to use that as a metric, does it.
i never claimed toughness is worse, just that hp curios work and aren’t “wrong”
so yeah the metric does make sense. if it gets to clearance 40 it can’t be wrong, it’s viable because there is nothing harder in the game
Important thing to note is, since Toughness bleedthrough from melee damage is based on the % of Toughness you are missing, increasing your Toughness decreases the amount of Health damage you take from melee attacks.
So by having more Health, you also take more Health damage, whereas with Toughness you might have less Health, but you also take less Health damage.
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you’re not accounting for situations where shooters bleed you dry without anything to gen toughness off nearby
it’s two different safety nets that are relevant in different situations. you can argue one is better in one situation but in other situations the other comes out on top. it’s a mostly preference thing, provided you have some toughness buffer to work with
Yes, that’s true, but the sheer amount of Health pool he has is still totally worth it because you get so much health in a run anyway like health stations, med-kits, stims. Plus, keep in mind like I said before if you have a certain threshold of toughness, you’re not exactly fragile either on top of which certain weapons are so fast now with lights you can sustain enough toughness regardless anyways. I still think the health playstyle is completely viable in certain circumstances.
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so yeah the metric does make sense. if it gets to clearance 40 it can’t be wrong, it’s viable because there is nothing harder in the game
Are grey weapons the correct and viable choice in Havoc 40?
evidently viable. that’s old havoc btw. i’m sure eventually they’ll do it on the new havoc too, but the bars are different.
you keep trying to put the statement in my mouth that i’m saying health is “correct”. I’m saying health isn’t incorrect. stop the dishonest gotcha attempts, bud.
Exactly that. Any double hit on 88 Toughness ogryn will put a big dent that huge HP pool. Meanwhile Toughness ogryn will just brush it off, mostly.
you aren’t forced to run with 0% toughness even if you do decide to pick up hp curios so thats a stupid comparison
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Yes im accounting that, by using “Steady Grip” in any of my builds.
you aren’t being bled dry if you have the means to get in cover and brace
If you cant reach anything in melee range, you switch to you ranged gun, brace it and start to slide around, dodging all projectiles, meanwhile regaining Thoughness back via “Steady Grip”(Which imagine… is scaling with Toughness). Thats the only way to survive vs gunners w/o the shield on the open space.
you can do that just fine with HP curios too