Spent last few days working on this, i hope this will be helpful for the newgryns.
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respect the effort but starting with:
“if you are using 3xHP curios you are playing ogryn wrong.”
been playing ogryn since beta, carrying clutching for 1000s matches (uploaded on my channel)
clearing havoc 40 pre patch with randoms only
but health build is playing wrong, sure. 
seen toughness builds melt in havoc 1 second later than my tree supported with 5% on each curio only to die faster cause they had no health to make it to cover.
toughness with cleaver and confident strike is an almost infinite ressource that can be recharged as long as you got enemies to wallop, health can not.
if it suits your playstyle, great go for toughness.
saying “health is wrong”…
1000s of peeps i scraped from the floor cause i was the last one standing were happy for my health
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I don’t agree with 3x Health curios is playing it wrong which sounds like nonsense to me, lol. You have plenty of Health Stations, Med Stims & Med Kits to top it off with & knowing that light attacks now make you have like infinite toughness, health isn’t a bad option at all. I’m not going to get into that particular Health v.s. Toughness debate, but Health Ogryn is a completely valid playstyle, strategy-wise. Because Ogryn’s Health Pool is so damn large you end up lasting longer than everybody else. Also, if you have like 120-170 Toughness you’re not exactly fragile either. That’s more than enough. For Havoc… Sure, you can make a case for pure Toughness which is fine, but saying Health Ogryn isn’t valid is just plain silly to me. My next question would be how much experience do you have with Ogryn?
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and people tend to forget if you play with randoms you’re on your own in terms of survivability getting from point a to b across the map.
seen good players with toughness build getting insta melted despite their larger pool from ranged enemies.
no bubble or book was on.
now, pants down the measly 130something health did little to offer retreat options.
so, whats my ankle here?
randoms and myself fkk up, happens.
cant control them but can give me a buffer to slide out of a situation.
does it work everytime? i sure wish, but say 70% of the time i lived where i wouldnt have based on toughness and bad engagment choice on my part.
speaking of guide for new players i see lotsa bad choices that health compensates better in my opinion.
fine tuned, honed oggy in premade… sure toughness works, i dont dispute that.
hence in my guides i always point out the random environment as main focus.
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Basically, toughness is important of course… It’s like you say when you’re in really bad situations, health will save you more than just that pure toughness in my experience. Plus, with 3x Health you can get away with more like poxbursters exploding on you randomly, chip damage, etc. I just find is super silly to say health builds are not valid. I’d probably step that back a bit, haha. I have clutched so many damn games with 3x Health.
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the class is so simple now that you can do pretty much anything and succeed and the guide starts off telling readers that hp curios are wrong, which i’ve been using on h40 and i see lots of people use on h40 successfully
you love to see it
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Havoc 1.0 was a joke. 2 psyker teams were making it cakewalk, getting True survivor on Archivum was soo goddamn ez. So bragging about closing lots of them means almost nothing. Pubbed tons 35+ Havoc 1.0 missions, carrying even bad teams on my back.
Main merit of good Havoc 1.0 player: You reached Havoc 40 in first 1-2 weeks w/o boosting.
How many of full HP ogryns have reached 40 in Havoc 2.0? Probably some, but lets not forget that FS increased EHP amount of HP builds even more in patch because every ogryn got 25 free toughness by default.
[quote=“Index, post:2, topic:106789”]
seen toughness builds melt in havoc 1 second later than my tree supported with 5% on each curio only to die faster cause they had no health to make it to cover.
[/quote] Any major mistake in havoc and you are dead, no matter on what build you are.
Confident on any fast weapon is broken (Bully 3, cleavers, Paul). But by playing more Toughness, you increase value of EVERY % regen talent or blessing and your EHP is much higher. Instances where you got hit by 2 attacks at the same time, will substract a lot of your HP, because your Toughness pool is lower (thats how toughness works), but you probably cant wrap your head around that concept.
By playing HP in aurics you are acquiring bad habbits, which will bite you in the ass when you reach real difficulty in Havoc. Thats the reason why its mentioned in the guide in the top section and why people should avoid doing that mistake.
Broken toughness in Havoc gunner seed means, that you are dead to a few shooters, because of stagger, no matter what you play HP or Toughness. And lets not forget, that scab gunners deal increased damage to HP, so good luck on scab gunner seeds with your HP builds.
By playing HP you can slurp whole medkit and starve your whole team of those HP (Medkit is 500 HP yeeee), seen that million of times.
Personally i havent seen any ~50 Toughness ogryn who did something useful in 35+Havoc 1.0 mission, all what they were doing, was just sitting behind the shield or just shivering in the back shooting. All of those missions ended very quickly. And i saw 12+ of them, no wonder, why ogryns got soo much bad rep in Havoc 1.0. On the other side, every good ogryn i stumbled upon was Toughness based.
didn’t read most your post but i’m at clearance 40 right now with hp curios
main merit of any good ogryn player: you recognize the skill floor and pigeonholding is gone and most approaches work now
So happy for you.
don’t act like you didn’t ask for it after you accused me of only playing old havoc, dogass build guide
I havent even reply to your post lol
i accept your apology
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How much toughness do you have in Havoc 40 after rework, while running all HP curios?
Don’t want to test it myself.
i can very well wrap my head around people being condesending aholes…
so yeah mr knowitall keep your guide and you do you
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First rule in every discussion: When you are out of arguments, call people names.
o7
“my opinion is the only correct one and everyone else plays wrong and is to stupid to understand”
isnt a “discussion”
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tbh i don’t see what the fuss is about.
one could argue for 3x toughness: it’s the resource i can regenerate, so i’d like to have more of it. and my health is untouched as long as toughness holds.
one could argue for health: toughness is broken more easily in havoc, and what keeps me alive then is health.
both have their merits. in the end, everyone should just use what is better for their playing style.
for example, on zealot one can forego until death + holy revenant for duellist + desperation on the far left for more damage. i know some consider this luxury of resurrection a crutch, but it has saved me so often from a bonk out of a mass of crushers or something like that, so i prefer using it. could i do more damage with a different build? yes. would i be less confident to attack a pack of crushers? also yes.
in the end, i think it’s better if people try what works for themselves, instead of policing the builds of others.
btw, i have 2x toughness and 1x health on ogryn at this time, with perks +toughness, + stamina and +block efficiency, might exchange that block eff for +cdr as i have on the humans, just need to see what i’m better with.
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Ohhhh maaan, you should definitely apply that to yourself. Because you just shrug off post full of valid points on topic, why Toughness is better than HP. Meanwhile bringing zero arguments to proof your point of view and calling your opponent “condecending Ahole” at the same time.
p.s. im fully open to argumented discussion, because i asked “Horticulture” about amount of Toughness on full HP build in current Havoc40, maybe its enough to feel decent.
uhum…
i guess we have a different understanding between “worse” and “wrong” then.
wrong is basically unacceptable when worse can work.
lets leave it at that
ps:
88 with 5% toughness on 3 curios
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you know just because you didn’t use a slur doesn’t mean you aren’t just insulting people right
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