Ogryn: Weapons, Toughness

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Gameplay Feedback
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He really good use a bit of toughness dmg buffs especially against shooters, I really would like to see him, being a tank like he used to be. Now he seems like slow moving zealot, without the combat power or the staying ability.

The shield… and pool noodle… for the love of god, we need a bull-butcher cleaver variant with it. I hate the shield. Now with the added nerfs to his toughness, the shield is even less useful. Him being so slow and especially with the shield. I think he could use a bit more mobility with them or at least more toughness.

Thrust with Pickaxe; it should start earlier, as now with heavy attacks its seems to fire, after a really long time, especially with Branx.

Where are all the 2-handed weapons for Ogryn, could we get a bit more love to the big man especially when it comes to his melee weapon variety. Its just clubs, where are the bladed weapons, the bread and butter of the game (IMO) that provide the visceral and fun experience through out the game, on all classes at least for me.

He is supposed to be powerhouse, but seems to me he is downgraded to being barely a playable class. Really I would like to see some buffs, to the ranged dmg from shooters he takes as he is supposed to be a 3-ton powerhouse. Mobility I can lose, but at least make him tanky, now he is more fragile than a zealot with martyrdom not cool…

Perhaps we could get a new class for him; that would introduce an armor system where, each block lost, would mean more toughness dmg, but you could find different pieces from enemies. Like the ranger in vt2, with the ale buffs.

Really just would like to see him being more impressive in terms of toughness, he seems very fragile, considering the added mobility of zealot and his power in melee. The Big Man could really use a roll back regarding the nerfs to his toughness.

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ogryns were originally designed to hold their ground against hordes of enemies, crushers, bulwarks, and even bosses, embodying their role as tanks. at least, that was the case at launch.
however, in the current state of the game, threats like these can be eliminated instantly with weapons like the DS, bolter, plasma, or revolver. as a result, the value of the ogryn class has diminished significantly.

even though I have an ogryn with nearly level 1000 experience, when I try to take down a gunner or crusher in melee combat, they’re often sniped by a boltgun-wielding veteran standing behind me in an instant. all that’s left for me to do is pick up scraps.
If the team has a decently skilled veteran or a zealot with a DS, there’s hardly any need for an ogryn at all.

despite their bulky appearance, ogryns are actually a very technical class, and without sufficient skill, their survivability is quite low. It’s no surprise some players feel this way.
unless fatshark addresses the balance issues, this situation is unlikely to change.

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Good assessment. I’d just like to add from myself that the core issue here is powercreep, and buffing Ogryn is not the way to fix it.

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I like the Shield + pick your 1hand idea! More Custimization. I think the Ogryn is in a nice place, I wouldnt call him weak or in need of buff.

If you want him to be a powerhouse you could always play on lower difficutly. I sometimes mess around on Diff4.

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ogryn is the most powerful class when the team is working closely together. ogryn is the weakest solo lass because they need teammates to isolate and deal with things ogryn either cannot handle (mid-long range shooter wads) or an only handle by disengaging from their main role and wasting lots of time (snipers, bombers, and other classes that need to be picked off by grenades)

most people complaining about ogryn’s melee weigh it only in TTK, which is not the main goal of most ogryn weapons. their primarey role is crowd control, and anything hit is either dead or staggered for the following blows. the specials on most of their melees are for singling out things that don’t stagger easy and staggering them anyways. none of this is “kills at top speed” and so is entirely ignored by most people who will wander off from the big man and make both of them more vulnerable in the process.

anyways, they should remove zealots from the game is my takeaway from OP’s post.

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Bannable Classes lets goo! If only they added more classes for this to make sense.

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It would be nice to see more variants and marks of shield weapons for the big man. The speed penalty for blocking with the shield is also awful.

I think one of the problems with ogryn is just raw stats. While the player can allocate a lot of toughness passives on the talent tree, having a base toughness of 50 is really weird and while I don’t think it should be 100 default like other classes, it would be nice if it was a bit higher.

Maximum HP% curios also suck. You would think ogryn would get the most value out of them since he has a massive 300 base health, but HP% curios only give about x1.2 the bonus that toughness curios grant and the small perks on them give the same amount of health as toughness. All health stats on curios should just give x1.5 the amount that toughness stats give.

I actually made a post earlier this week about talent changes that would make the ogryn feel better too if you’re interested.

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I’ve recently swapped from toughness to health curios on some of my builds and it feels like I’ve had a massive lunch. Feels good!

You can really get away with a lot if you spend your large HP pool wisely – it won’t help much if you’re constantly getting shredded by gunners, but having 500+ health in a sticky special spam situation can save the whole team.

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Funny Gifs : james brown Gif - VSGIF.com

emprah be praised.
belly full of rashuns lets you wallop longer pal.

rubbish.
you go for “the best defence” passive talent, get comfortable being in the thick of things and quick on your feet and you never want for toughness again unless the whole situation gets fubar.
then you´ll be very thankful for having a generous health pool that lets you out of the commotion, reposition and after 1-2 whacks into a horde or cluster of elites, you´re back at 100% toughness again anways.

besides, really getting sucker punched toughness takes how many hits from 100-0 ? 3-5? in an orgy of melee thats half a second sometimes.

so the " oh :poop: " situation is sometimes faster than you can maintain your toughness not matter the amount.

health on the other side is your safety net to get going.

no, for health is being taken off far less “eratic” than toughness and if you got a good feel for the situation you can gauge how long you can have enemies chip at you until you finally hit the floor.

look at 7:50
prime example of de-escalating a rager cluster with little health but ample toughness bouncing back and fort.
every bit of health helped here whereas my toughness consumption trading hits was all over the place.

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i feel like this straight up isn’t true, i’ve player my share of auric maelstroms with ogryn and you can just take a shield with bleed and toughness on heavy and play completely brain dead just mashing my way through hordes.
in fact one of my mates got auric storm survivor by accident by doing just that and i have to regularly remind him what the block button is because he just eats gunner shots to the face

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Yeah, actually I’d defend that statement. I think that’s part of what makes Ogryns good. Basic ranged enemies were already nerfed, at some point players have to be expected to dodge and position and learn to stop always getting netted/pounced/mutie slammed.

Had to double check the date make sure I wasn’t in a necro’d thread. Fatshark killed all of those ages ago.

Fatshark give Ogryn his stagger back!

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In regards to the Toughness issue vs Gunners, I found that this is 100% solved by just taking Steady Grip :

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This gives you crazy good regen while bracing if you build your Curios for maximum Toughness (and you absolutely should on Ogryn).

If you don’t have 2 points to spare to take Steady Grip then dealing with Gunners becomes very annoying. Maybe use a Cleaver with high mobility and just dodge-slide at them ?

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Interesting you felt that way. I came to VT2 late, and bought DT early access off the back of that.

My first beta char was the Ogryn as I assumed he was the “tank” equivalent to Bardin Ironbreaker.

I was disappointed with the Ogryn early days in that he didn’t feel very tanky at all. At least in my early hours of the game. Maybe just the learning curve!

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Exactly… I know toughness is the “Meta,” but I switched to 21% HP Curious as well with all the health nodes on tree & all health on the curios too. I’m at 579 Health & loving it. I got 150 toughness which is enough for me because I get toughness back so fast regardless. I’m a tank machine monster. Especially when I slip on FNP as well. I still think Health is the way… Because Health doesn’t regenerate back like toughness. Without health you’re dead. I’ve tried max toughness at 266 it’s nice, but there’s been bad situations where as a health Ogryn I survived impossible things I should’ve died honestly. But if I was a toughness Ogryn in the same situation, I would’ve went down or died easily. I think LVSpooky is wrong on this, but each to their own. I can say this honestly… I don’t go down at all in games anymore or else it’s super rare af. I’m over 1000 lvl on Ogryn so far. That’s been my experience.

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The shield is probably the number one best hordeclear in the game, especially for hordes with bruisers mixed in, and the safest weapon that kills elites well, just fyi. Maybe now shared with the pickaxes. It’s really just one of its attacks though, so it’s understandable that you had a different impression.

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Honestly, I forgot that many normal enemies do more damage to toughness than they do to health. I also found that Too Stubborn To Die got it’s health threshold buffed since the last time I used it, which is great for a health build.
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I still think it’s weird though that the 5% toughness curio perk is equal to the 5% health perk, even though the big perk at the top isn’t equal…

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I don’t think Health Curios sucks per se you can literally get 579 Health off that with nodes from tree & stacking perks on curios. Now, I’m not going to arguing with your math here it looks correct. I’m talking from personal experience playing Maelstroms & regular damnation. I’ve stacked Toughness to 266 the max & I honestly saw diminishing returns while playing it took much longer to stack hits to get it up to that again, so it might be decent for chip damage, but that’s only one little aspect of the whole story, plus my health was only 300 with that combo & I found that I would do more poorly with less Health maybe that’s a coincidence? Who knows… But after playing Oggy for over 1000 hours Health seems better to me in my eyes. I was honestly better off with slightly less Toughness & more Health in worse off situations while when I was a pure Toughness Ogryn you fold like a cheap lawn chair when the A.I director says F-you & you don’t have much Health to survive a crazy outburst. Toughness regened faster for me with less oddly enough. Also, chip damage is nothing not even a concern for me because of dodge sliding forward to where ever I’m going. I’ve never had a particular issue with this. I feel as though this is your objective opinion & that’s okay nothing wrong with this, but you’re not god & king of the Ogryns lol. Like, who are you to say what’s the absolute best? Everybody if different & they cater to different needs while playing & value other things. What I’m saying is that By having more Health you’re more tanky & can take a lot more abuse in the long run you need Med Stations or Medi-packs or Med-stimms to get back the health you lost, but there are times where you don’t have those at your disposal all the time, so you’re screwed. Like other’s have mentioned, I also use Health as a resource when needed. Not trying to be an a-hole… But already 2 other guys already agreed in this post about Health (not using this as an argument!) lol. :smiley:

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Yeah the regen thing with toughness is because coherency regen is the only non percentage toughness recovery in the game. I think it’s around 5 toughness a second before curio and talent boosts.

There is also a hidden mechanic in Darktide that I just remembered that might explain why health is good. Every character has a passive that causes bullet damage to be heavily reduced for a little bit after toughness is broken, with a cooldown that scales on mission difficulty. So due to this mechanic health is more relevant to consistent players who can run out the cooldown on the hidden damage reduction without getting hit as much.

I wish more game mechanics were taught and shown in game without needing to reference random data-miner posts.

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I use predominantly health curios and I’ll say this is still garbage, you’re rarely taking damage when you’re getting toughness replenished via melee kills anyway so it’s total overkill. Talents like this have a design issue, not a numbers issue. You could buff this to be 1000% increased and it still wouldn’t actually make a difference. Toughness replenishment from melee kills as a stat as a whole is worthless on Ogryn because he gets far more than he needs from other places

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No, joke… I was literally going to explain what you just said, but you said it perfectly. People seem to forget that. Fatshark needs to do a much better job explaining all of this.

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