Yeah, but Too Stubborn to Die multiplies ALL toughness replenishment sources, except maybe coherency regen. Toughness from kills, talents, blessings, the whole works.
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Iâm still not seeing the use. As I said, he gets far mroe than he needs from other places to begin with. Ogryn doesnât benefit that much from generating more toughness because his baseline is already enough to keep him safe in all situations where he CAN generate toughness. At least in my experience I usually take damage when Iâm caught without something to hit nearby, and basically never otherwise.
Maybe for gunluggers it has value since they actually could use some more but theyâre also probably not going to route over to that talent. Thatâs a two point tax on an already incredibly tight talent tree
Give it a try sometime. Itâs absolutely noticeable when your heavy attacks are giving you double toughness. Feels awesome. They changed the math recently so itâs not actually double, but still itâs a hefty amount.
Tbf itâs either going to come in clutch or you may not even reach the threshold in a match, thatâs just the nature of it. To say that youâd never benefit from ~double toughness replenishment from all sources in a bind thoughâŚ
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maybe itâs a playstyle thing but I definitely wouldnât benefit, my toughness on ogryn is completely binary, either totally full or totally empty and nothing nearby to get it back. And I actively avoid all other sources of actual toughness replenishment too, like the heavy hitter keystone mod. I think I have something like 145, not running around with scuffed base toughness or anything. If the talent was TDR, DR or movespeed instead I would strongly consider it
Heavy hitter toughness keystone is 100% worth avoiding at all costs as IIRC it only affects melee kill replenishment 
Too Stubborn to Die is decent when used in the right circumstance, but it would be one of those nodes that would be pretty situational in my eyes. I never find myself at 33% or less Health in a game because my Health pool is so large just personally. If that does happen itâs exceedingly rare like 5 out of 100 games or something. Honestly, although arguably⌠Wonât Give In is debatable sometimes. I still think this is a clutch node because I find myself having to pick up a lot of randoms in pub games that go down a lot & on top of that it stacks like crazy, 20% DR every downed person within 20 meters! Iâve saved many, many games with this alone tanking while on the pick up. Itâs worth having if you want to be a sweaty little try-hard. On top of FNP forget about it⌠Youâll be a monster Hulk. Iâve had crushers hit me in fire while picking up somebody & it didnât even phase me, I was like âokay, is that a mosquito that just bit me?â lol. Seriously, Thatâs how good it is.
Huh? This makes more toughness even more important as maintaining your shielding without having your health gating popped is extremely useful. And once it is popped you want to rebuild toughness ASAP (which also scales with max toughness) until itâs available again.
A bit of extra health isnât terrible for ogryn but building exclusively for health is just⌠ew.
As far as I know they removed toughness grace break period, or nerfed the everloving bejesus out of its damage reduction. In exchange the slowdown/stun is way less. You can test it pretty easily in the meatgrinder - a couple scab stalkers will near instantly kill you if they start hitting HP mid volley. Because they hit for a large damage value instead of having a large multiplier to toughness like most gun enemies.
Again, this personal opinion. Thatâs totally fine. Itâs not ew. I survived crazy stuff by stacking Health as opposed to stacking Toughness & saved full teams because of it. I feel Oggy is a bit different because heâs not so agile like other classes⌠you can get away with stacking toughness on others with Oggy I feel heâs more tanky with Health with a certain builds⌠He takes a lot more of a beating than others. Thatâs why I think Health is still amazing on him because the pool is so massive. I get literally 579 with stacking thatâs huge. If you want to actually survive the worst scenarios Health is the way to do that. When I stacked 266 toughness with 300 HP I went down like a cheap lawn chair in those bad situations. With 579 Health, FNP & WGI youâre a monster tank the refuses to go down. When youâre out of that Toughness stacking in bad situations youâre fkâed basically with 300 or even less Health during the match. Iâve done it a million & one times. If you watch more experienced Ogryn players on Youtube youâll see their Health pool is always larger than toughness. Donât get me wrong, though⌠Toughness is important for sure, but Oggy gets it up so fast that I feel itâs redundant to have like 266 toughness itâs not needed in my eyes.
both health and toughness have their advantages, and an work well for the big man with the right style, whatâs important is that the ogryn has his BEEF.
imagine not playing stamina ogryn in current runt catch up meta. you must wait 2 minutes for your 20 blocks to come back
He has innate 36% TDR and some of the best toughness generation talents in the game. I really struggle to see an issue here.
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Didnât Fatshark get rid of the 36% innate DR when talents got reworked?
No itâs just a hidden stat now. Isnât listed anywhere but itâs been tested and is still there.
Edit: From Kuliâs guide.
Cool!
I really wish there was something in-game that showed the different charactersâ base stats and passives.
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Gonna be honest, this is a really tired debate to me.
I was running toughness on him even around launch (2 toughness and one health is what I typically do) and had people telling me I was doing it wrong, fast forward to returning to the game and now I see it being recommended by people who argued with me about it.
Health can certainly work, but thereâs genuinely little reason to run it (IMO) other than as a pure safety net/if you consistently let your toughness get broken. If youâre not getting caught out in the open by shooters with no toughness, thereâs no reason your normal chonky health pool shouldnât be enough.
Toughness has only gotten even better since the skill tree rework for ogryn.
Thatâs fine & everything you can totally mix & match whatever you desire my man. Iâm just talking from my experience. It doesnât matter how much Toughness you have youâre going to take Health damage if youâre not careful regardless. Health is the life line & more of it is not a bad thing at all you last longer in games & make a few more errors too. Without it youâre toast. I think thereâs a lot of reasons to run Health, mainly clutching & tanking right thatâs why Iâve saved teams with that⌠I will probably die on this hill. But I think itâs better. Even at 150 toughness I still do great, but then again it might be experience on my part not going down to gunners (which is rare). All you do is dodge slide forward thatâs it thereâs no more issues thatâs solved. I see this argument a lot with shooters I donât find it valid, sorry, I mean you have Shield & can see them a head of time. The fix is dodge sliding or taking cover & knowing the map layout, so youâre good. If you donât know this by now thatâs wild. No excuses. Yes, itâs gotten better & thatâs great & all, but having 266 doesnât make it better when you run out of it & all you have is Health, right⌠Then what? Thatâs how Iâve clutched so many times. Been testing it for literally years now lol. I mean, you can do what you want itâs all good no harm done. No offence taken, but have youâve played Oggy long at all? I just think it is a valid point of view.
You very clearly didnât understand my post if you think Iâm struggling with shooters/gunners.
And yes, my ogryn is the closest to a main I have. I was doing high intensity damnation back at launch and jumped right back into auric damnation with it initially when returning.
Health ogryn have pretty consistently been the players relying hard on it to carry them through a bunch of mistakes in my experience.
Toughness vs Health is like, pure preference. Toughness gets you through longer dry spells without being able to regen it, health lets you engage in more things that end up knocking off your toughness. Totally depends on how you play and how often you charge into stuff you shouldnât charge into. Thereâs minor other benefits too, like damage ratios from certain melee hits being calced off max toughness, etc. I personally like health because it means I have to give approximately 0 hoots about poxbursters, corruption or poxwalker chip damage.
I do think toughness would win out no contest if Darktide didnât have like 12 free full healing charges per map. At that point health can become a resource you plan around. Taking HP damage isnât actually something that makes you drain resources in this game. Another thing that hampers the importance of max toughness is the prevalence of shout vets.
I got it & I responded with my thoughts accordingly & it wasnât directed at you personally, I mean it as a generalization of the problem which isnât a problem you type of. I said itâs not a problem if youâre aware of your surroundings. I donât think this is an issue at all if you know what youâre doing. Especially with sliding, Attention Seeker, Shield & all that noise. Youâve got to be joking? Right? Iâm the one who usually carries teams & the last alive in general so to speak. So, what? Thatâs the point of Health Ogryn, right⌠Be tanky & not die. Not sure what the criticism is here exactly? Youâre just pointing out what it is. Iâm trying to see where you disagree on why itâs invalid. Youâre suppose to make mistakes with it & clutch. This is bad, how exactly? lol. I literally said all of this in my initial statement, Iâm not hiding anything. Youâre just re-typing things that Iâve said previously.