Don’t really see alot of discussion about ogryns, so I’ve decided to to write what I feel that current state is on Ogryns.
First, the survivability on Ogryns. While having an easy time in melee combat, due to reach, cleave and stagger means it’ll be hard for most minor enemies to even get a hit in, combine this with dodge, block and push and it’ll be even harder. Ranged combat can be annoying due to the large size of the hitbox, this can be mitigated by sliding or just keeping out of line of sight. Some maps and layouts are better for this then others and having a team which is more likely to engage the shooter groups in melee with you is also preferable.
So when I see changes to feats which just ends up doing nothing I get slightly annoyed by the design descions made for the Ogryn. Example on this is the new Lead the Charge, when I first read it granting stun immunity I was happy to see it, something that’ll help me get into melee with shooter groups… already on the ability to help me getting into melee with shooter groups. As for Payback time, while it is a damage increase that’ll help with ranged damage aswell but by making it only trigger on melee damage it just feels horrible. If I am playing correctly, taking melee damage is hard unless it is in a hectic situation and I have to take a few hits to take down a bigger threat or save a teammate.
I don’t like the bleed build neither, tying survivabilty to two feats, heavy attacks, having bleeding enemies in melee range and then it needs to stack to five to gain the whole value. There are a few feats that reads good but in the ends does minor things for the Ogryn.
So what do I want for the Ogryn? I don’t want to be staggered by having my toughness depleted, I’d also want a large base coherency range so I can at least move around abit more find better spots to be in if you have a large hit box and if possible I’d love to have the rumbler and grenade gauntlet to not have so much damage fall off in the area of effect.
Ogryn needs more damage. All of his weapons should be capable of 1 shotting poxwalkers on light swings. We can tweak the cleave values so blunt weapons have trash cleave damage but better cleave stagger (oh wait, they do). But i hate this so much its at least half the reason i dont play ogryn.
A friend of mine sent me their excellent 380 pmaul and look at the heavy swing damage:
Is this a joke? Are you insulting Ogryn? What is this? a wiffle bat!? Poxwalkers have 300 health! Groaners have 200! How is the 2 ton man with a refridgerator on a stick not oneshotting the weakest enemies in the game? At least on first strike.
There is a disconnect between how the Ogryn should feel like playing and how it actually plays, this is something you notice on damage. But then again this should be more of a support character and until they add in more extra subclasses and you can do a comparison of all the other support subclasses you’ll just have to be used to seeing a two ton man running around furiously beating already knocked down enemies.
You can’t really compare it to the light attack though, because the 180 is only to the first 2 vertical attacks. If you keep chaining lights it’ll be only horizontal after first two and the horizantal attacks deal pettiful damage. I feel like I have to hit poxwalkers 4 times for them to die. It’s no wonder the mk III cleaver is his most used melee weapon. It actually kills stuff.
Yeah, the damage stat on the horizontal “horde clear” swings is around 84. Which means you do literally need to swing around 4 times to kill a single poxwalker. This is, i think, the same as the damage on shield and maul lights and represents a joke played on the players.
Ogryn are supposed to be absurdly strong. True power houses. Yet, ironically, they kind of suck in melee and its their guns that get the most value. They would make a lot more sense as tough as nails unstoppable murder juggernauts that just happen to have heavy but inaccurate firepower.
Which, as you say, is why most people are running the cleaver. At least that way it doesn’t take half an hour to kill through a horde. People should be complaining that ogryn Melee is OP.
The mk III cleaver with slaughterer is my weapon of choice because I can at least contribute to the team by clearing up chaff units and when I do engage shooter groups I can kill them fast and not get stuck in them for too long.
Also, I guess I bad reading comprehension at the Lead the Charge feat as it only applies to your allies… which makes it even more questionable, who is it for? Zealots have a good way to close the gap all by themselves and not sure if psykers or veterans want to be in melee range by choice.
I guess zealots and other ogryn.
Addmittedly it’d be really fun to use in a coordinated 4 ogryn game with coms. And maybe when there’s a new class they’ll be able to take advantage of it.
The skullbreaker who broke no skulls, a story by Dr. Suess
I don’t understand the role of the Ogryn in this game. Am I supposed to stand and watch how zealot or psyker burn crowds for a few seconds? Or how veteran easily shoot and just as easily cut any enemies?
The problem is not that the other classes are too strong, but that the Ogryn just can’t do anything. He isn’t a crowd killer - he doesn’t have feats for it. He isn’t a tank - there are no control crowd feats. There are no push strength, you don’t stun strong enemies, no stamina regeneration for long fights, he doesn’t provides defensive auras. Scattering the crowd every 30 seconds isn’t real control.
You don’t have any form of active defense - no dodges, no movement speed. There is no block cost reduction. If you are surrounded by a crowd of enemies, then only bull rush can save you.
There is a large health pool - which is consumed quickly due to lack of resistance to stun.
Ranged enemies easily break your toughness shield, and while you are stunned, melee enemies take almost a third part of your health.
There is almost no difference between 1lvl ogryn and 30lvl ogryn. The feats are either too weak, or too situational, or completely uninteresting.
Why Best Form of Defense and Smash 'Em Good! are almost same?
Heavyweight looks like a crutch designed to solve the problem of too low damage against hard-to-kill enemies.
How often do you get grenades to use it with Bombs Away!? Especially if you playing with zealot who have more useful grenades. This is a dead feat unless there is a veteran with grenade repenisment feat.
Why does everyone but the Ogryn gain immunity to stun and suppression with the Lead The Charge feat? I described problem with stun above.
Bullfighter only works when you are winning.
Hard As Nails works rarely and only with weak teammates. But with weak teammates you will lose one way or another.
Die Hard only works if your skills are bad. Yes, and also rarely. A weak player doesn’t live long with 25% health.
Taking damage to health is a bad strategy to win if you can’t regenerate it. The buff triggered by taking damage should help to avoid taking damage in future. Payback Time does nothing for this.
Raging bull gives too little effect for what it requires
Bleeding aren’t interesting. Bleed itself is a weak effect that only works against large, unarmored targets, so makes sense to take it only for damage resistance feat. Minus 2 feats just to increasing resistance.
The only reason why ogryn may be needed is to revive allies. But it’s a rarely used skill if people know what they’re doing.
Ogryn’s mostly just QoLs away from feeling powerful, because he’s actually very good overall. There just isn’t much value being placed on controlling the game, since you can out-murder it so often. But when you play mostly pubs with people who are terrible at population control Ogryn is in the driver seat, like Foot Knight Kruber. An unbelievably sturdy tank that can survive a genocide worth of damage and keep battering enemies back, none of the elite melee enemies can land a blow without getting tossed on the ground or into a minor hitstun.
Mostly I just want cleave damage distribution improved, and the slow combo loops fixed. You shouldn’t have almost a second of nothing before you do another set of bully club lights, or the trigger delay on the Stubber. Or the recoil divorcing from your point of aim with the Ripper if you M1 repeatedly. Not huge buffs but major for long time Ogryn players.
Much, much more than I can say about psyker, who has 2 good loadouts and maybe 1 feat setup people use. Totally boring and the hardest class to clutch with.
I don’t mean to say that the people who play Ogryns don’t do anything. But the same players on any other classes will be able to do a lot more.
He just doesn’t have any strengths. He does everything mediocre. Simply because the choice of his feats doesn’t change anything at all.
Try to imagine ranged Ogryn class. Will he noticeably worse in melee than skullbreaker?
A fun and fluffy mechanic here would be to have the ogryn deal damage back to muties an dogs when disabled. It wouldnt have to be a lot, but imagine him punching the mutie back a few times while they’re wrestling. Occasionally you’d see a mutie die to it and be like “nice”
Kind of. I find the ogryn the only unique class, and yet so lackluster and opposite to everything implied by his uniqueness. I understand that he cannot be too overpowered because of the balance, but…
Mutants - I think that the first rush by a mutant should never disable him, just stagger both of them. The second rush by a mutant should simply cause some damage. He should never be disabled by the mutant.
Pox hound - basically, just damage, no disabling.
Trapper - as is, but he gets to free himself after 10-20 seconds.
He should not be so stamina nerfed.
He really should be able to swing more and not be interrupted by anything.
His ranged weapons should be prone to significant imprecision and causing FF.
That’s fine, I’m just describing my vision - boost his fleshiness, balance it with nerfing on the ranged side because he would be too much for the game balance.
I am not into WH, or at least I have not been into it until VT1, so I have no clue about the webbers, JFTR.
Also @anon38135248 You’re describing IB Bardin from V2, he can take a free hit (every 20 seconds-ish). I do agree with you. For Bardin this means if an assassin rat pounces him or a packmaster catches him, he will bump them off (no dmg delt) and pop the cd, literally saving himself. I think our Ogryn friend should have a similar passive, since one of his arms is literally the size of the dog. The Ogryn could smack him off and stun those around him.
Ogryn excels in both range and melee, I think his issue just comes down to positioning, if you get caught out from a fire team, you will take damage. You have a charge to get out of a bad position, so i don’t really see any weakness to his kit other than a big frame.
