Ogryn Problems

Hey all,

Really loving the Ogryn so far. Love the size and how he feels offensively when you stagger and push opponents. Where the class falls short for me is defensively. Firstly, we need more choices when it comes to using the slab shield. I personally would love a shovel slab combo. As far as defense goes with the shield, it sucks… the only redeeming quality is the special with the shield but even then you can’t see anything, and the enemies either just pass through you to get to teammates or stop shooting at you. I think there needs to be some sort of taunt mechanic when you use the special. When normal blocking, the shield is anything but tragic. The stamina issue is glaringly bad when you can only block a few Lasgun shots or 2-4 melee hits before it’s broken. Also, the pushblock animation is very small and doesn’t look any different from the animation when you block an attack. Lastly, the talents for Ogryn just suck overall. Every talent just seems to be choosing between 3 bad options to me.

I would love to hear others feedback!

Afterthought: Bull Rush is hard to cancel. Please make it like Krubers charge in V2 with a right click

4 Likes

100% Agree, as soon as I started my Ogryn I had plans to be the “Tank” obstruct the path to my team, soak up the hits while people mow down in front of me. But my heart sunk the first time a Beast of Nurgle decided he was bored with me and phased right through me to go pick on the Psyker. It felt so…disrespectful. :frowning:

I’m a walking wall. Let me actually BE a wall for gods sake. The biggest downer for me atm as an Ogryn player is their seeming lack of physical presence when it actually matters. I’m the width of 3-4 characters, but somehow mobs rush past me as if I’m the same size as a dreg.

That being said, it seems like a lot of the time, I can still barricade a horde from my team, but it seems only as effective as the mobs interest in me being the closest target. If for any reason ones AI decides its done with me, it just walks right through me just like the bosses.

2 Likes

I agree! My friend plays a psycher and he’ll always tell me I let mobs through that come hit him because they walk right past me!

You can not expect to be able to aggro the entire enemy horde on an open field. You need to use choke-points to keep the masses under control. If you manage to keep 70% of oncoming enemies on you, your psyker should not be complaining about having to kill a few mobs every now and then with their sword.

Once you get a some +1 or better yet +2 stamina curios you will hardly ever run out of stamina. Just level up and buy better gear.

Have you tried them? You can get 100 % more stamina regen in coherency and 50% increased coherency area. That regen feels amazing. My biggest problem is having to choose between so many great options.

1 Like

The biggest problem I feel for the Ogryn is lack of weapon selections. Especially the extreme lack of armor piercing options as I think only the Shovel is capable of piercing Carapace for melee? It basically forces me to use the Grenade Fist because it’s grenade direct damage is capable of dealing/damaging Carapace. Otherwise it’s just me sitting there knocking it around for 60 seconds hoping someone with a chainsword comes over and then kills them in 2 seconds.

Completely disagree on the shield. While the special’s defenses are already noted, capable of tanking hits that nothing else can (overhand slam attacks from Crushers or Mace Assassinate targets), the big reason I bring the shield is the AI behavior. You’re able to hold your shield and advance towards guys in cover and then they start meleeing/come out of cover. They even typically avoid shooting at your shield so it doesn’t use up a ton of stamina. This is extremely powerful on harder settings where it feels like there’s more range and gives your team the ability to handle them once you get them out of cover. With good defenses/block% reduction shield I basically can wade into any entrenched ranged position with relative ease.

Bull Cleaver feels great. The special staggers quite a bit and the cleave just obliterates just about anything especially if you get +Flak damage%.

Beyond lack of weapon selection, the only real complaint I have is that there’s so much CC/ragdoll on weapons like Shield/Mace that it’s extremely hard to tell what’s actually dead and what’s just CC’d. It sends things flying everywhere which is great but then you find out you did almost no damage and it gets up and sneaks behind/side of you and goes after other chars or hits your rear. The AI sits on the ground unmoving while knocked down so you have no idea if it’s dead or just staggered on the ground.

Grenade feels super clunky to use and I wish we could just quick throw the grenade with G or hold down G and then throw it after. Most of the time I’m fighting a Bulwark, I CC it enough to knock it back, then I gotta press G, ready the grenade, then hit left click and it’s recovered it all just feels slow/clunky and I get most of my grenade use as an opener as a result.

3 Likes

Thank you for the constructive feedback! I am lvl30 but have not seen any stamina trinkets yet sadly. I’ll be on the lookout for them and see if anything changes!

Talent wise, id say only the lvl 15 ones are subpar.
50% coherencey radius is the clear best choice since the other 2 are pretty meh.
Lead the charge is pretty useless honestly and bull fighter could be useful, if not for the fact the best thing to use bull charge on are elites, which are all now dead.

Weapons i kind of agree on, maybe lvl 30 has a better melee, but as it stands our choices are basically the shield, the Mark VI cleaver and the billy club.

The Mark VI cleaver is the clear standout in terms of its ability cleave vs the other cleavers.
The shield is good because of the defense and its ability to actually dmg armored enemies.
The billy club is good because it also can actually dmg armored enemies and it even has a talent for 1 shotting all human sized enemies.

I’ve played mostly Ogryn (level 30)

I run Cleaver and Grenadier Gauntlet, which seems to be a very strong combo that complement each other. Cleaver cuts through hordes like butter, and is fairly good vs all units except the carapace armor, but the Grenadier Gauntlet’s special attack makes quick work of all those pesky, evil, plated brutes. Grenadier Gauntlet’s massive melee attack is great, but it also provides you with an accurate, high damage, long range option for single targets when melee is not feasible, dealing high damage to all single targets while also being a very effective aoe disruption to all enemies around your initial target, which works great vs clusters of ranged enemies.

On the topic of ranged weapons for Ogryns

Because of how combat works in Darktide, Kickback (shotgun) and Ripper Gun don’t seem viable at higher difficulty levels, as they are mostly effective at a very close range. But if you’re in close range, you can just use your melee weapon, which is better because then you can block and cleave. They do give you a high burst attack for close combat, but they seems unusable, as you won’t have a long range option, which from what I can tell is a must, as many encounters forces you to clear enemies out from ranged before moving forward, and half of the elites are ranged and you need an option for how to deal with them too. The Grenadier Gauntlet, on the other hand, gives you both a long range attack and a melee burst attack, which seems like the obvious superior option.

The Twin-Linked Heavy Stubber (minigun) is very fun to use, but it requires a long wind up time and a long reload time, and is very inaccurate at longer ranges, hobbles your mobility, as well as it being very bad against armor, so it doesn’t seem very good even though it was fun to use. You don’t really need ranged horde clearing with Ogryn, as you have Cleaver for melee.

My favorite weapon design is actually the Rumbler, which launches an explosive shell with medium impact damage before exploding for high explosive damage. It’s excellent at killing tight clusters of enemies, since the blast is stronger than gauntlet’s, and at staggering elites. However, the shell can bounce and jump and its landing location can be unpredictable, and against chargers and hounds the explosions almost never land. The initial impact damage is decent, but not compared to gauntlet. For long range they function similarly, but gauntlet is just better and more accurate, and the Rumbler does not have the melee anti-elite burst that the gauntlet boasts.

On the topic of melee weapons

Cleaver seems to be the superior choice, but I have not extensively tried all other melee weapons.

Shovel seems meh, functions very similar to 2h hammer in v2, which means heavy attack is decent against armored targets, and push+followup-attack is great for horde crowd control. But, why would I want horde crowd control when I can just slaughter the horde with my Cleaver instead. If it had been better vs armored targets I might’ve considered it, as it’s the most versatile weapon that has no big downsides, but it doesn’t have any real impact either.

Single mace feels too slow and needs to be even better vs armored targets. It struggles against hordes and it feels overall bad. I haven’t tested the patched version of it, but I doubt it makes much of a difference.

Mace/Shield seemed immediately very underpowered. Playing with Shield also blocks a lot of vision for you, which is terrible, but it also reduces the vision of your team. It will make your hit box even bigger as well, resulting in your team mates’ shots not getting through. I’ve played as Veteran together with an Ogryn using a Shield, and it’s more annoying than helpful. It does allow you to to block shots that would otherwise hit you in the face, but is it not better to 'nade the ranged enemies down instead? Killing them, knocking them down, disrupting their formation, seems much more useful than standing still and doing nothing but maybe save a bit of shield/hp. Or heck, just charge them and kill them with your Cleaver. It also gimps you vs hordes, as the Cleaver is just so freaking good for that.

General Notes

I hate being matched with other Ogryns, as an Ogryn ruins visibility for your team and his ranged weapons often cause a lot of smoke and disruption, so having 2 or more Ogryns in your team feels pretty bad, as it all gets very messy and confusing. I was matched in a team with 4 Ogryns once and that was horrible. One Ogryn is good, but more than that can be detrimental more than useful.

It’s very hard to avoid taking damage as Ogryn. Your hit box is so big that everything will hit you and you can expect to lose HP however well you play. However, that’s why you have a lot of it. I’ve found that offensive strategies are the best: charge in, kill and disrupt the enemy, letting your team clear up the chaf and follow you.

Their game design theory for Darktide was to focus more on ranged combat in general, but there are no ranged talents at all for Ogryn, which seems odd, as it accounts for half your weapon loadout, and you are typically using your ranged weapon as much or even more than your melee weapon. I’d love to see talents that focus on ranged weapons or even tied to specific weapons that could enable things like the minigun to be more viable, so that you can create “big gun gunner” builds. Instead Ogryn’s ranged usefulness is gimped because of no associated talents. However, iterations of this type of Ogryn will likely be introduced as classes post-release.

On the topic of talents, I find bleed talents to be very, very bad, as they don’t do nearly any damage at all. If they had given a debuff too perhaps, or just done more damage, it would’ve been fun, but this eliminates any kind of bleed build, which they have built into his talents.

Moreover, the heavy attacks talents (and your passive heavy attack buff) also seem very bad, as you don’t really want to do heavy attacks. You want to be attacking as fast as possible to stagger enemies and avoid getting hit yourself. It’s much easier to be hit and for your attack to be interrupted (especially with random ranged enemies shooting you all the time) when you try to heavy attack. I tried forcing heavy attacks because of shield regen talent, but it was just worse. Vs hordes you either want to be attacking quickly or you want to be using push+followup-attack. Heavy attacks can be useful, depending on your weapon, against single targets, but with the Cleaver light attacks provide more DPS vs single targets as well as vs hordes. And since the best ranged weapon is Gauntlet, you don’t really need a heavy attack for your melee, as a heavy attack is already built into your ranged weapon’s special attack and is far superior to any melee weapon heavy attack.

Ogryn’s Role

I would say that Ogryn is not as much a Tank as he is a Brawler. Yes, you have the highest healthpool in the game and you have defensive passives, talents and potential weapons, but the best defense in this game is offense. You need to be pushing forward all the time, as quickly as possible, because the longer you spend sitting still doing nothing, the more hordes and specials will arrive in total during a mission, increasing your risk of failure. Your defensive strength is best used offensively - think of your shield and HP as a resource to kill enemies with, just like ammo.

Your job, apart from killing, is to disrupt enemy ranged formations (and sometimes to stagger monstrosities or knock down melee elites) with your charge. You’re uniquely capable of being able to take a lot of damage before going down, and as such you are the strongest “solo” character, making you able to stray from your team to deal with clusters of ranged shooters.

There’s no point in having a Tank in this game, and as I found with mace/shield, you are only slowing down your team, limiting your own and your team’s vision, and limiting your own ability to efficiently kill, and forcing you to play defensively - which is strictly worse than playing offensively. If you are forced to play defensively from ranged, use your ranged weapon. If you are forced to play defensively in melee, like vs monstrosities, use dodge!

You are also uniquely capable of helping up downed companions because of your passive that lets you do so without being interrupted, however this is more just a bonus, and although you should try to make use of this as often as possible, it’s still often just better to kill surrounding enemies before helping your team mate up anyway. You might not be interrupted while helping them up, but you will take damage.

Ogryn’s Problems

Weapon balancing and viability. Even though I love Ogryn and his playstyle, and literally all the weapon designs (ranged at least) are cool and feel great, but the weapons are not balanced against each other. They are each meant to give you unique advantages and disadvantages, but when you have a weapon like Gauntlet, which has no disadvantages, it renders all other options mute.

The talent tree is very meh. I don’t feel anything I choose has much impact. It feels more like an illusion of impact. This does make the classes easier to balance, by giving everyone weak or minor talents that change very little about your gameplay, and lets you choose whatever you want, because it’s mostly just down to flavor.

Example: “Bombs Away!” Talent sounds very cool and is a very unique talent, but it doesn’t really do the damage you’d expect a box of grenades to do, so it has low impact. In addition, the best targets for your grenade box is unarmored Ogryns, as you usually one-shot them, and since you do one-shot them, what’s the point of a grenades exploding afterwards? So like most talents of this class, and of all classes in this entire game, it’s low-impact and more about flavor.

The Biggest Boy. You are fat and your team knows it and hates you for it. Ogryn might just be the worst class simply because the ranged focus of the game requires good vision, which an Ogryn can ruin. Being mindful of your team’s positioning isn’t always possible either, but good positioning relative to your team mates is vital because of your size, so being effective as an Ogryn while also allowing your team mates to be effective, is a challenge. It might be the most difficult class to master because of your size and how it impacts your team. And as previously noted, more than one Ogryn is absolutely awful, and since it’s just 4 classes atm, you’re very likely to get more than one Ogryn in your team, and that can hurt your team’s chance of success.

With all of this said I’m still having a blast playing as an Ogryn. My giant, bald-headed “BIGBABYBOY” kills with the Emperor in his heart. Or maybe just because he has a giant cleaver in his hand.

2 Likes

I like the shield but my main complaint about it is how you can’t pre-maturely heavy attack with it, this causes me to get hit far more often than other weapons where you can choose how long you hold your heavy. Attack speed as a stat would seem like a must to make it more viable.

AT level 30 and lvl 4 difficulty, if i take a Shield and a grenade launcher (not the gauntlet) it impossible for me to dodge and kill mutant or hound, does the shield nerf the dodge range ?

I have noticed this as well, can never dodge with shield even when I time perfect.

I think Ogryn shield is best, but only because people can sit inside you, still see outside, and be protected. I haven’t experienced this first hand since I mostly play psyker, so I just shoot through my big friends anyway.

You don’t have to be mindful of your team’s positioning, really. All you need to worry about is the current terrain and enemies, so you are not body-blocking the team’s view of targets.

If you primarily advance and attack from a side of the current location, drawing aggro and leaving room in the middle of the terrain for the team to shoot, it is all fine. You can control most of the crowd and your team can easily deal with elites, when most of the elites are focused on you.

Shieldgryn with +2 stamina curios can tank absolutely anything and you can keep doing damage as well, since backwards-dodge with shield has much greater range than sideways-dodge. Charge heavy, dodge back, hit, block, push-attack, block, advance, repeat.

Also: you can avoid most damage while reviving if you actually do not damage enemies before giving a helping hand. Instead, position yourself so that the least amount of mobs are behind you, hold block and then revive. Most mobs will ignore you and the rest will just bounce their hits on your block. Easy as nosh.

My problem is all I have found are 18% health curios. So I have 3 of those and zero Stam ones lmao so my blocking rn is so bad

I recommend logging into the game few minutes before an hour changes, so you can check the current inventory, wait a minute, check the next inventory when it refreshes and then log off and check back in two hours. Do that a few times a day and I am sure you will score some +stamina curios.

1 Like

I really feel like the special block should stop enemies from passing. Would change so much for ogryns, there is nothing as heart breaking as being up in a bulwark’s face blocking only for it to gain noclip and zoom past you.

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agree 100% the ogryn has limited weapons and so far to me only a few are fun to use and I am only messing around on malice.

The shovel is my current fav crowd clear and cleaver

the stubber is immesnly fun but slow animations and VERY long reload along with it being useless against armor is depressing

mace is meh

shield and mace is ok but the combos are a bit weird to time and are slow like the one hand mace

the “daggers” or knives are ok but struggle on armor and found the cleave on the shovel to be better personally.

the two “shot guns” the ripper and the pushback (think that’s its name) are both fun to use but again both suffer from long reloads and mediocre damage and both dont really excel at cleave or armor kills (the ripper is OK at killing armored targets the pushback is more for CC then actual damage)

the grenade fist is just plain strong solid ranage damage on specials and the special attack can trash armored targets BUT I personally dont like using it because it feels meh even though it is pretty strong

The ogryn talents are hot garbage all but the 50% coherancy radius are “well which one isnt complete garbage” for choices. Nothing in his talent tree blows my mind and that seems like a running thing in this compared to VT2 as the guardsman seem to be the only class to me personally who has some decent choice and build variations.

I think his aura should also be changed to something else because i dont see many people using heavy attacks much at all and even i dont use them much unless I am running clever or mace (which is rare)

I think he also needs some variation of an axe or armor piercing melee (spear?)

He is by far my favorite followed by the guardsman

the zealot and psyker are not for me they both feel off and psyker just feels terrible going into malice and higher difficulty.

1 Like

Hello Fellow Rejects I’ve made a post that I’m gathering up all posts related to the Ogryn until Fatshark gives us individual class topic pages please give it a view and like so Fatshark can see our feedback all in one place.

I’ve linked this post to there.

Cheers.

https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/the-ogryn-chat/58554/4