Why does the Ogryn do the least amount of damage?

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Gameplay Feedback
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After having played all Classes to 30, spend hundreds of hours in the game. Tweaking and doing…

Why is it that the Ogryn seems to do the least amount of melee damage? I mean for most other Classes its a matter to decide “fast hitting, low damage” or “slow hitting, but you can get the weapon to a OHK” state.

Why is it that the Character you’d expect to be able to hit the hardest in melee… the character whose knives seem to be an inch thick sharpened metal bar… why is that Class utterly incapable of one hit killing a Poxwalker on Damnation with a light attack? When every other Class in the game can build at least one of their weapons to do this feat?

The Ogryn attacks slowest of everyone and it his the weakest. It’s guns are awefully inaccurate and low ammunition… its grenades are… why does it only have 2 grenades? Couldn’t you change the Talent that makes the Box open so that you trade, lets say 1/3 of your ammo for the ability to cluster bomb… and in exchange increase the Box of Hurt ammunition amount to 6?

The Shovel at 79% damage does 132/283 damage. The first heavy attack is a strike down, so i am not going to be able to wade into a horde of Poxwalkers and just take a bunch of them out. I’ll shove them around, make a nusiance of myself for the team by doing so… and due to the way it allocates damage i only do 223 damage on an Infested, so i can’t even try to chance for a +25% damage bonus vs Infected to get me over the 300 damage Threshold. And that is with heavy attacks. On my Zealot, with all the Class Talents and the weapons i have avialable i have several options of melee weapon that does this on light attacks.

Power Maul… over at the Zealot with the Power Hammer, or the Veteran with the Power Sword,… or the Psyker with the Force Sword… i can do respectable damage when powered up… Everyone knows about the Power Sword and its insane Anti Horde abilities. With the Ogryn… i can’t even kill a single poxwalker when its powered up. Believe me, i tried in the Meatgrinder on Damnation setting. 79% damage again, does 181/185 damage respectively. I bunched all the Poxwalkers up into a single Cluster, charged the Power Maul and struck. I killed 1 walker, damaged a 2nd one to half and the rest pretty much hat 3/4 HP remaining. So clearly i am not supposed to Melee Hordes with this. When i charge it up, and hit a Scab Rager… i do maybe 25% damage… when i allow all of the bleed damage to thick through from the Talent, i get it to about 65%ish Hp? So clearly its not Anti Elite. Used on a Flamer i can see a use… with 90% damage done… but that means slow Ogryn gotta motor into melee range? The Dog survives the thing with about 25% damage left… so no good against that either. 3 Charged hits against the Mutant… and i gotta charge between each use… (guess that makes the Power Cycler Blessing Mandatory). Against the Bastion, i can stagger it through the shield… but since the power runs out before a 2nd strike can connect at best i do 100 damage with a 2nd heavy swing (hit from behind it takes loads of swings again). Against a Crusher is pitiful 485 damage on a Weakspot crit… What is this weapon for? It doesn’t even knock the crusher down with one hit, so you could make the argument that its meant to Stun the crusher. But to do so i have to move after it, because the first hit pushes it just out of reach… meaning when i am swamped by a horde, i am not knocking the horde away from me like i would with the Thunder Hammer or Crusher… i am not slicing the Horde like i would with the Power Sword… i have one hit and it better connects to the Crusher, who then stumbles out of reach and i have to be lucky if i can follow it to knock it to the ground. Seriously, what is this weapon for?

The Cleavers, again… same problem. Even on a heavy attack i am not breaking the 300 barrier… meaning i am not murdering Poxwalkers, unless i am investing in the Perk and do weakspot hits. And since the Attack Patterns for the heavy attacks are a lot of strike downs i am not using it in the Horde as much. With a +25% infected Perk, i can get it to weakspot hit kills on the Light Attack. But then i pretty much can choose Flak Armor, Unarmed or Infected… to make it an Anti Horde weapon, because i need that Perk. To be able to murder the Horde.

And the shield is just abysmal damage. I have a 77% Damage shield and its light attack does tactical axe levels of damage, and doesn’t even feel half as quick, with 91/163 damage (I have an Atrox MK VII Tactical axe with 83/165 damage at 80%). On Infected weakspot hits i am doing 120 damage…

And the last entry being the Billy Club, which again is just shoving enemies around infront of me.

The entire Melee Combat of the Ogryn doesn’t feel fun to me as a result. I am supposed to do heavy attacks… to trigger my Talents and given how slow they all are… i’d expect the guy to hit like a Truck… but in the end he does about as much damage as my other characters with their light attacks.

And i really don’t understand why the Ogryn isn’t allowed to do as well in Melee as the other Characters… and yes i know this is subjective and maybe i don’t fully understand the intricacies of the Ogryn, it being my least played class… but it doesn’t feel like i am playing an Ogryn, when its outdone by literally everyone else. Even my Psyker feels better in melee than my Ogryn does.

What i don’t understand is… why isn’t there a weapon group for the Ogryn that is aimed to do damage? Where you can actually not play a Tank, that is meant to somehow gain a lot of toughness and just shoves enemies around the floor infront of him, so that everyone needs to wonder if the enemy is dead or will they get back up in the middle of the group again?

Anyway, that is my Feedback for the Ogryn… after playing all classes, being happy with them and still wondering what exactly the Ogryns role is supposed to be. Pretty much they seem to be able to decide being a nusiance for the group with their grenade guns, for which every Zealot hates them when they disperse the enemies all around the room (i so hate when Holy Revenant Triggers and the Ogryn just dispersed all enemies in front of me with their grenades, that also don’t seem to kill anything it doesn’t directly hit)… or shoving enemies from one corner to the next, with melee attacks, that don’t seem to kill anything and you have to walk after the Ogryn, cleaning up their mess.

I mean, its great roleplay, i suppose, but it doesn’t feel great to play as Ogryn, because it doesn’t seem to be allowed to do anything… between Ripper guns that are constantly lacking ammo (their ammo should really be doubled), and melee attacks that never seem to kill anything (and yes, i am very comfortable weakspot hitting on the other 3 classes - just doesn’t feel right)… i just wonder where the Ogryn really fits right now.

Also, why can’t the shield be an option to replace the Bullrush with? Instead of the Bullrush give us the Option to bring the shield… that way you can give the Ogryn a good Melee weapon, retain the Tank potential and playstyle and don’t force Ogryn players to decide between 0 offense and at least a little bit of offense.

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Simple answer… Ogryn does good damages considering its role.
This is a tank. With all this health and all toughness regen, this class has all tools to resist more than any other classes.
That’s why, the Ogryn has not too much power to deal damages.

On the other side, you find the psykers. They deal lot of damages but can fall fast.

But, I consider the ogryn weapons really good for a tank. I have now a lvl 30 ogryn and seriously, being a tank and have yet the weapons they have… that’s really great.
I really don’t think that the ogryn would need to get weapons that deal more damages.
Example: I try actually the ripper gun MKV. Wow… this gun can damage easily a crusher… someone made a thread about ogryn that had problems with crushers… well there are lot of solutions to deal with crushers as an ogryn…

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I play Ogryn from the very start … the Ogryn is by no means a tank, but a brawler … he CCs a lot and throws stuff arround … but unfortunatly … he does no serious damage compared to the other classes …

Edit: if Ogryn would be a tank, his toughness would not be depletet by ranged that fast and he would be staggerd so often by ranged … and the shield … well that stamina is gone pretty fast, too.
And toughness regen in meelee is nice … but not killing ppl to do so … well …
And tanking in mellee is somewhat … useless

and about the classes … well the “over rep of Vet”-Thread got a very heated debate on that ;).

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I don’t think a tank that is not able to take the aggro is needed in this game. If there were talents like taunting or something similar to the ironbreaker in VT2 it might be a different story.

Ogryns HP pool and toughness regen feels more like a compensation for his huge hitbox and lower mobility.
I also think it feels wrong to play a giant guy that is not able to onehit little skinny nurgle boys… Atleast if you know that the human classes can.

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Ogryn does pretty cracked DPS with slaughterer BB. It’s meta for good reason. It’s unfortunate that the margin between its horde clear and every other Ogryn melee weapon is so drastic. That said Paul may give pretty mediocre horde clear but with heavy weight what Ogryn does with it makes me feel like a strictly upgraded version of Crusher Zealot. It really bullies and dispatches Ogryn Elites in a way that is pretty hard to match with any other class in melee.

I also find Kickback to be a more useful lawbringer in basically every practical sense. Rippers are pretty crazy DPS, especially with the current can opener bug that FS has said they’re content to leave as is for now. I won’t go further into ranged since melee seems to be the main focus of this thread.

Generally I think the general horde clear ability of Ogryn’s non meta melee could do to be brought up a bit but that Ogryn overall is in a pretty strong place.

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More like heavy support. A lot of his feats tied up to team. Don’t know why they named this subclass Skullbreaker, it should be Bodyguard.

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With Ripper II can opener+blaze away and Bull Butcher I compete on about equal grounds with my friend on Veteran.

I know CO is broken, hope it stays that way. I’d probably lose half the damage.

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I hope so, too.
I could be ok with a little nerf on it, too.
Don’t get me wrong, I really like how it’s working (although i’m not using it currently as it feels like bug-exploiting), but if it stayed that way, there would nearly be no other meaningful choice in the ranged slot … it’d become even better as bolter … at least it feels like…

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The ability to kill a poxwalker with a single attack seems like a somewhat arbitrary metric for success. But if you want to kill poxwalkers, as has already been mentioned, the bull butcher (especially with slaughterer) provides some of the best melee horde clear in the game, if not the best.

The shovel is an all-rounder. You don’t open with a heavy attack against poxwalkers, you alternate light-heavy-light-heavy to get horizontal sweeps. It won’t throw them around, but will stagger them in place, which lets you do relatively safe (but slower) horde clear. Plus it will kill elites at a perfectly acceptable pace. You may not think much of the vertical heavy attack against poxwalkers, but try it on a crusher. Also the uppercut straight up bullies ragers and even bulwarks if you can land it.

Power maul, if you can stomach the absolutely unnecessary slowdown on charge, provides some of the best anti-elite melee in the game. It’s not a horde killer and never will be. Same goes for the bully club, which admittedly is in a bit of an odd spot because it essentially wants the same role as power maul but isn’t as good at it.

And yeah, the shield needs help. And the krourk cleavers are left in the dust by the bull butcher. But the ogryn still has some very capable melee weapons to choose from.

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i am not maining ogryn cuz i dont like the class, but out of all my games on damnation as ogryn i didnt found myself out of stamina even once while i was using slabshield…i had harder times dodging disruptors then managing my stamina honestly, but thats probably fixable if u play ogryn long enough and used to his dodges…

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I saw that it has alredy been mentioned but to specify: a decently rolled Bull Butcher even with a T3 Slaughterer blessings can easly one shot 2 pokwalkers in one swing, has pretty good attack speed in his light chain, you literally butcher hordes with this weapon

The shovel is one “all rounder” type of weapon, will not excel at anything but has nothing it really struggles with, his special attack is very useful utility to have, only note i think it lacks in the blessing options, i think Tenderiser and unstoppable force that are mostly ingnored on other weapons may have some use on it.

Power Maul is more in the categolry of Zealot crusher than the other weapon listed, his primary objective is CC and it does a very good job at that, his single target damage capablities is not to be overlooked 2 with one pretty average Power Maul you can reach to 4shot crushers and bulwarks while nothing around you can touch you because is staggered and suppressed.

The shield unfortunatly is pretty bad i must admit, i hope fatshark can give him a rework.

Mostly Ogryn is a very suppert/utility oriented type of class but can regardless reach high damage potential with a combinaton of range and melee. I think Ogryn is very well designed and i appriciate the little touches to his feats and passives that fatshark recently made.

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The ability to kill a poxwalker with a single attack seems like a somewhat arbitrary metric for success.

Well, i wrote my post from the perspective of someone that plays all classes. Even if i play Ogryn the least, and based on my expectations of the big body of the Ogryn. And as such i am judging the Ogryn on its ability to deal with Poxwalkers compared to the other classes, when i compare their Melee capability. Poxwalkers and Groaners are the most numerous enemies i tend to fight with all Classes and as such i have a good baseline of what i expect how the combat should feel.

I have a non standard Psyker who i love to Melee with. It took a while for me to become comfortable with the Psyker in melee, but now i am enjoying them. Same thing with the Vet… much like the Psyker he is more of a glass cannon in melee, but ever since playing Zealot i have gotten used to the Melee and i am comfortable with melee-ing.

That all being said, when i go over to my Ogryn… it just doesn’t fit. It doesn’t feel right. And yeah, i know abou the Bull Butcher, but if you need a specific blessing to make it work, then there is something wrong. And up to Heresy the Melee feels okay. It is slower, but it entirely falls flat on Damnation. On Damnation i don’t have the “Dance Fight” of the other Classes… i also don’t have quick attacks with a Tactical Axe… i only have slow lumbering attacks, that don’t seem to do the damage i expect them to do, based on the slow attack speed and the fact that the Ogryn… for its size should hit like a Truck.

And i don’t understand why the Ogryn doesn’t have weapons with damage potential like the Combat Axes, or the Power Weapons of the other Classes. The Power Maul feels like hitting people with a pool noodle. I don’t get the sheer fun i am having when i dash around with a Thunder Hammer miaming big boys, which makes up for the lackluster unpowered attack feeling. I don’t get this satisfying “Wack” feeling when i hit a Pox Hound and pretty much delete that thing from the game.

Just like i don’t have the adrenalin rush of using a Combat Knife or a Tact Axe… or the Satisfying ability to whip out the Combat Axe and delete a lone Poxwalker that trickles in as i split its head apart. Instead Ogryn weapons require me to stop my movement, hit two three times, in the best case and in the worst case i hit it once and then search my surrounding area where the guy has dropped so i can finish them off. And all of that leads to a lackluster experience.

I would love to be able to run through a level with say a Cleaver and use the Uppercut Punch to delete a single Poxwalker. Aim for its head and wack… the head goes flying. That is what i would expect to happen. It of course doesn’t happen, because the Punch is mostly to stagger things… which makes it all the more unsatisfying. Or when i hit something with the Billy Club… it doesn’t feel like i just hit someone over the head with what looks like some Plumbers DIY project (and the fact that we have Plumers DIY projects for Inquisitorial Agents is another issue i am having… like other classes get Force and Power Swords… plasma guns and such and the Ogryn gets the Janitors DIY project to hit people with… but anyway)…

I just feel like i should, given side and slow movement speed and such… be more powerful? And i am not saying i want this to be unrealistically so… i would just want parity with the other Classes. I want to have a Tact Axe option where i can quickly hit stuff… or something like a Thunder Hammer type of deal where i am using a big Crusher Like weapon to vaporize the enemy.

Melee as Ogryn just doesn’t feel right, and it doesn’t feel right because i am “struggling” to kill the enemy in a timely fashion. Sure, i don’t go down while doing so… but even while not going down… and able to push around the enemy more easily, i just don’t feel like i am a big Ogryn and based on my experience playing other Classes… all of them feel more capable in Melee… and worst of it all… all the other Classes have choices. I can go for speed over damage and it still feels right… just not for the Ogryn. I have the choice of not doing damage or doing even less damage. And going “you need weapon X with Blessing Y on Tier Z” just to get the gaming experience other classes give me with “Profane” weaponry… then something is wrong. At least in my opinion.

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Give Bull Butcher Mk III Cleaver with Slaughterer blessing a try if you want quick horde clear on Ogryn. Power Maul is not an equivalent of Thunderhammer, Force Sword or Power Sword. Thunderhammer is CC and elite burst damage on special. Force Sword is light elite killer on special. Power Sword is an aberration and I expect it to be tuned down, same like the flamer.

The weapon has a different role, crowd control. Shovel is heavy elite killer if you build right, and with specific attack chains mediocre horde clear at best, as you don’t have many cleave properties on it.

For range clear I would go for Ripper guns Mk II or V. If you brace and unload things just disappear. If you space out your shots it gets decent sustain also, as its damage in general is an overkill.

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The cleave damage distribution of his weapons is terrible outside BB3. He can only hit 3 targets with MK4/6 cleaver and brute brainer shovel lights. The shovel that he swings horizontally through a crowd hits 4 less targets than a heavy sword, 5 less than power sword. If you really want to feel sad look at the damage targets 2 and 3 take.

This was a truly baffling decision to give the other 2 knives made for horde clearing the cleave damage distribution of the duelling sword and none of the attack speed.

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Give Bull Butcher Mk III Cleaver with Slaughterer blessing a try

Look, no offense, but that does not address the issue. This is a Feedback thread, where i am giving feedback on how i perceive the Ogryn Character and its lack of damage across the board.

I am not looking for suggestions which blessing combinations i need to run in order to achieve what every other Class seems to achieve with Profane weapons, who have real, actual variety and options in the melee weapons and melee combat options…

I am aware of the edge case that is the Bullbutcher with Slaughterer blessing and it does not address the general problem. It should not be the case that i need to run one very specific Melee weapon with a very specific blessing, just to get on level with everyone else, while all the other Classes have actual choice in terms of variety and blessings… and can decide between 3 or 4 melee styles, none of which feel underpowered to me… compared to all of them, which includes the Bull Butcher with Slaughterer, on the Ogryn.

The Bull Butcher with Slaughter isn’t even in the same league as the Antax Combat Axe with Brutal Momentum. And that is the issue i am having… the biggest and strongest looking guy has the weakest melee options.

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To people who are familiar with the setting this makes no sense. To people who have barely heard of this universe and are just going by feel alone this makes even less sense.

I don’t care about his “role” as a bruiser, control CC tank or whatever. Its WRONG. Ogryn are big. Dumb. Deadly shocktroops. They should be at their strongest in melee. Every single melee weapon the ogryn has should be able to oneshot a poxwalker on first target hit even for light attacks. If we want to say second and third target cleave damage is Thunder Hammer tier for blunt weapons, fine. He can still be a CC machine. But someone’s skull should get broken on EVERY swing.

Stagger is not a substitute for damage
And the skull breaker should break skulls.

Thank you for reading my TedX talk.

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Also, even with bad weapons, the Ogryn can stagger or even push priority targets over and “hold them on the ground” (at least my Ogryn can do this).
Yeah, in comparison with my Vet or Preacher the damage is sometimes only “ok”, but the utility/CC is high - that’s the difference and the reason for the “least amount of damage”.

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I can’t think of many profane weapons that can oneshot a poxwolker on damnation even with headshot though and mostly those have very little cleave. Attack speed needs to be taken in considaration too when valuing the effectivness of a weapon.

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Have you ever tried to reach a gunner with the shield block … stamina is out half way on a 2 meters journey (exaggeration alert!!)

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“Why does the Ogryn do the least amount of damage?”

Because it’s the class with the most CC, most health, largest DR, and superhigh toughness regen and I might have left something out…

BTW ogryn does pretty good damage.

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