Why does the Ogryn do the least amount of damage?

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Gameplay Feedback
21

I can’t think of many profane weapons that can oneshot a poxwolker on damnation even with headshot though and mostly those have very little cleave.

And that is fine. My question is, why doesn’t the biggest and strongest looking guy on the team have the same?

Why is it, that a Veteran, Psyker and Zealot seem to be doing better in Melee than the Ogryn does… and why is it that i need a very specific weapon with a very specific blessing to achieve the same level of “brutal fun”, that the other 3 classes provide me out of the gate?

Look, i get that my feedback is based a lot on “this feels wrong to me”. I tried to give example why it feels wrong to me… and without animation attack speed and the like, it is very difficult to make truly objective arguments.

I don’t like arguing from a “this feels wrong” perspective. I’d rather have hard math to say “look, this weapon is behind that weapon by X amount, can we get a slight buff here so they will feel the same?”

I am fine with the slower attack speeds of the Ogryn, if the trade off here would be that when i hit… what i hit is dead. At least the small puny ones. I am fine with needing Perks, Blessing and the like to hit harder enemies, but when i already can’t dodge/dance fight around the horde, my attacks feel slower than they do on the other 3 characters… and i don’t have the damage to justify it… then i just think it feels wrong.

And the reason i am not looking for suggestions on which weapon i need to run for parity is simple that its a band aid. It doesn’t fix the inherent problem. I should be able to pick up a melee weapon and hit like a truck with it, as the biggest and strongest guy in the room. Regardless of settings or mechanics… that is what i would expect to happen when hit by a being the size and body mass of an ogryn. And that doesn’t even include the lore, where they are inhabitants of high gravity world and thus their muscle density is more akin to a Gorillas than a Humans. So they shouldn’t just hit like an upscaled human, but more like an upscaled Chimp or Gorilla. And then add a 1 inch thick slap of metal, onto which you sharpened an edge. That blade alone probably weighs 10-15kg, solely based on its thickness. Just dropping it onto a human sized skull should cause deadly injuries… let alone have them swung at people.

It just there is a dissonance between what my expectations based on size and speed of the guy are with the effects it causes. And that is my feedback. I don’t understand why the biggest guy in the room seems to hit the weakest.

If its a matter of Damage Resistance and such, which i feel makes up for its size, hitbox and the fact that it cannot dodge in a meaningful feeling manner (or take as much cover), then reducing those values to give the Ogryn their expected “Ooomph”.

It is also not about a “can i make it work”… yeah, i can make it work. Still feels off, tho. That is my problem. It just doesn’t feel right that the biggest guy in the room does the least damage.

And when it comes to “this feels wrong”, it could maybe a simple Animation Fix… or a Sound Fix, by making the hits sound more meaty and feel more weighty… that might even fix the “feels wrong” part, even if the math tells me that really they are the same damage and attack speed. But the feels wrong is what i feel needs addressing.

22

u can legit use special and wait till your mates deal with him or simply los…stamina management is called “management” for a reason…

23

Look I don’t disagree Ogryn’s other melee could do to do better horde clear but getting pretty tired of how much you seem to underrate BB. You make it sound like you need a god roll when in reality you just need a passable BB with one blessing, slaughterer, at all least T2 and it already starts being pretty cracked. A T3+ slaughterer BB which also has confident strike or momentum is easily a top 5 melee weapon in the whole game, and you could definitely argue it to top 3. So very much not just offering “what the other 3 classes offer me out the gate”. That’s a gross underestimate of a meta Ogryn loadout.

Slaughterer on its own makes it kill the vast majority of things very quickly while stagger locking most things for just spamming M1. You cover its Carapace weakness with GG or a can opener Ripper and it’s hard to overstate how good of a build you’re looking at. Handles every single threat extremely proficiently.

Again, I do wish the gap between BB and the other melee weapons in terms of horde clear was significantly narrower, but pretty close to all of his melee weapons can perform well if paired intelligently with ranged weapons that cover what they lack (shield is the biggest outlier here, followed probably be the Krourks knives for least viable melee options).

24

Which is way people do not like Shieldgryns: plonking the shield waiting for others to kill stuff.
And the shield should be exactöy be there for getting up to the enemy and ingangr in meelee, which pn damnation and even heresy does not work at all as your stamina is draind by ranged attacks the moment you step out of cover …

I like the shield, I play with it, but you are limited to heavy attacks and shieldblocking ranged attacks is nearly senseless. That’s just a fact. Especially cause you are slowed down.

The only real thing the block is “good” for is, that the block-attack as that is quite heavy in oneshots most normal enemies even in damnation…
It’s just hatd to really utilise, as it is hard times to get up to the enemies to connect the maul to the head!

25

This is why I only use the BB+GG build, because any other weapon feels like a handicap. BB has enough damage to 2-hit trash mobs and the attack speed to make it feel good. Most of the other ogryn weapons need either more damage or more attack speed to compete.

Then I switch to vet or zealot and I go “wow look at all these weapons I can use.”
I believe ogryn is still underpowered still lacks good build variety. And no, buffing the worst weapon in the entire game (kickback) isn’t enough.

26

Because of balance.

They don’t (except vetarn with PS but that weapon is broken)
It may feel that way too you probably because you are inexperinced with the class but Ogryn feels just right to me.

Being able to oneshot trash enemies with one simple profane weapon would be objectivley too strong, They anyway mostly do more damage than most of the weapons and hit more targets and have mor stagger without considering the extra stagger from Ogryn passive. You can jus push elites out of their animation or punch them away with most special attacks, other classes can’t do that.
If it feel so bad for you to play ogryn then play somethng else if it means that to make the Ogryn up to your standards it has to be buffed in to an overbroken character.

27

tbf psyker doesn’t do as much damage as sharpshooter once you hit Malice.

As psyker you generally don’t want to wade into close combat if you can avoid it. It’s very much a desperation move. Neither the force sword nor the duelling sword are good for taking on hordes. They’re good for killing a couple of guys so you can get your staff out again.

Ogryn is significantly better at diving. Not only is it significantly more durable, but the weapons have much higher stagger and cleave.

28

As psyker go for anthax combat axe mk5 with momentum and u become a meatgrinding machine huehuehue

29

FWIW the MK V beats the MK II in most real-game scenarios, forget what the Discord Mafia says.
Try it and see.

30

I know nothing about discord mafia you speak of. I like how II feels over V. And I don’t have can opener blaze away MkV, while I have it for II.

31

As psyker you generally don’t want to wade into close combat if you can avoid it. It’s very much a desperation move

I am quite comfortable with my Psyker in Melee and don’t consider it a “desperation” move. Then again, my Psyker is also not built to use a Staff (although i sometimes bring a Voidstrike Staff), but instead build around Meleeing and Brain Bursting. I am quite happy with my Force Sword in melee, especially in combination with the Wreck ability and Kinetic Flayer keeping me Flush with Toughness.

I get that a lot of people don’t like to Melee on their Psyker, but i don’t think it is a desperation move. Especially with the amazing Push of the Psyker’s Force Sword, and its infinite Dodges, you can dance fight around a Horde like a Zealot, no problem. Unlike the Zealot you even have an “Oh S :heart::heart::heart:” button, that stuns everyone around you.

Now mind you, when i don’t bring a Lasgun as Psyker then I try to bring the Voidstrike Staff to bear as much as possible as it is the better horde clear than the Force Sword, but it depends what my Team needs of me. My Team knows they don’t need to ask me to play Surge or Flame Staff. Those two playstyles are the worst playstyles I ever encountered and i loath them. But my Zealot teammate is fine with bringing their Flamer and that allows me to focus on killing Crushers with brainburst, as well as trying to clear Gunners and the like, helping the Veteran out.

It has always been my opinion that a Psyker is more than an ornament for their Staff and properly built you can go into Melee and murder things around you.

Ultimately, i’ve always been of the opinion that you need to find what works best for you. And if you don’t like Melee on a Psyker, that is fine, but Psyker can very much be built for Melee. Not quite as durable as a Zealot and quite the unique experience. You’re job will still be focusing on Elites and Specials in melee with a Force Sword, which makes it quite unique from all other Characters and i am very much liking that.

And Ogryn has the potential to be a 4th type of melee combat… a slower, more deliberate combat, but for that it needs to feel better, like you trade power for the sluggishness… and i think the easiest way to achieve that is increasing their damage to a point where they can easily deal with Poxwalkers in a single hit, without the need of Blessings and the like. You don’t need to touch the damage for Maniacs or Flak armor, just up the damage for Infested and Unarmed a little to meet the thresholds for one shotting Poxwalkers and Groaners on a Weakspot hit in Damnation.

32

Everyone on the Discord is very positive on the V dude you’ve got to stop making assumptions based off a few negative interactions you’ve had. Like if they’re discussed it’s just pros and cons of each absolutely nobody says you shouldn’t use the V and plenty of people there prefer it.

33

I see how it can look like that, but not quite assumptions, based on observations there and when they go to Reddit; bit of a recent kerfuffle adding to that. I’ll leave it at that…

34

I am also frustrated that Fatshark doesn’t let Ogrins be aggressive without dying to one shooter at the end of the corridor.

And now, as it stands, Ogrin is just a pillow(not even a tank) who should just let others do their job and up them when they are down.

Of course, Ogrin have a shield that doesn’t aggro more then 30% of enemies, unless he is literally alone and so infront that no enemies know that there are others, but I consider this a bad Ogrin play.

The one and only weapon that allows Ogrins to feel aggressive and Huge is a Cleaver, that one. It can solo any hoard without any worries, it does pretty much the same job as Power Sword, but worse.

And about the Power Maul, in my case it’s the best weapon that allows me to counter everything and stun everybody, but it’s really a salt to the wound that Zealot has a weapon that is exactly the same but twice as fast and better, but Zealots don’t really use it because it doesn’t kill…

Also there a fun fact, shooters can shoot use through the hoard because you so big that you body stick out, have fun squating.

Overall, I am sad that Ogrin plays more like a Fat Dude, rather than a Muscle King

35

An ogryn can’t kill one poxwalker with one strike but he can kill eight poxwalkers with three strikes.
Also ogryns have huge reach and are great at creating breathing room for themselves and the team.

There is also a handful of powerful ranged weapons at ogryn’s disposal. The only type of damage this class lacks is spammable long range single target precision fire.

Ogryns pack A LOT of damage, but it’s mostly short ranged AoE damage or anti-elite damage+stagger.

36

Yeah, I second this. I run with a shield and my Vet friend loves it as everything is juts constantly lying down and being controlled… other players… well I met a few that were giving me a hard time.

I don’t agree that everything falls flat on Damnation. The curve feels good to me and things do get tankier, but that’s to be expected. I find that positioning is even more important than it used to be and that I need to work on keeping my toughness up at all times.

If you want variety in play style you can’t just have one thing be the meta. With that said, I’m trying to get a hold of a good knife now through the atrocious crafting system we have. Maybe I’ll get lucky.

37

Things lying down are harder to headshot, or hit at all when cleaving through other standing enemies.
So I would say it’s normal for players to not like it, at least the ones that can hold their own in melee.
Especially vets with crutchsword horizontal heavies, normally it will kill a ton of enemies all on headshots - you knocking some enemies down means that some are not hit, or some are definitely not hit in the head.

Often the enemies on the ground can appear to have died at a glance(some dead enemies still move a little bit for effect) and get up to hit allies in the back.

Best crowdcontrol is just killing them, everyone also have push/block to keep themselves alive.

38

while I’m not saying ogryn is useless or bad, he is for me a clearly less enjoyable tank than those of vermintide 2, kruber knightfoot could deal with most armored with executor sword or bretonian sword while still being tanky and maybe even more protecting for its ally with his aura and how strong his charge was.

even ironbreaker had two handed axe for good damage and could use sniper ranger or flame thrower.

ogryn should be strong and clumsy but the clumsy part is the predominant part in darktide. I’m probably bad at playing them but I feel like half the game is spent trying not to loose too much health while being bullied on the path to close combat. skullbreaker is supposed to be the combat specialisation for the ogryn but his best part is his ranged kit that feel actually powerfull and 40kesque overkill. while the mele is done with butterknif.

39

Exactly. Skullbreaker breaks no skulls and it’s horrible. If they wanted to make him feel as good as he should they could at least let him preform as well as a thunder hammer heavy on any given heavy swing. (Thunder hammer can oneshot first target for most light infantry on heavy swings). So why not just make that the rule for all weapon design? Heavy swings on power maul should not do 189 damage or whatever pathetic number it is. It should be like 320. Heavy swings on anything in ogryn’s kit should be cracking 300. Personally i think all his light swings should too. Cleave damage on different weapons can be played around with to avoid ogryn being god but there’s literally no concern in my mind if his MELEE kit can bonk a few extra light guys. In runs where 3000 enemies is not uncommon killing on first hit in melee won’t feel more powerful than vets shooting everything or that psyker using his trauma staff to blow up the one guy you were going to hit for fun every time you try to hit some straggler.

Yes im still mad, whoever you were. I know you did it on purpose! He was MY heretic!

40

You can just use hammer+shield to have better waveclear and still have decent damage(push attack + light 3 combo does wonders) against even chaos warriors(single).

It’s all because of lack of stagger mechanic, not sure why that’s not in darktide.