Due to the rending buffs in the left ogryn tree, Melee ogryns presently deal more base damage with any ranged weapon than a ogryn that has dumped most of his stats into the ranged build path. Melee ogryn with the new achlys one barrel stubber can two shot crushers in damnation with the reloaded and ready skill the rending boost skill and the dominate skill, deadly accurate blessing, surgical blessing and 25% damage to unyielding and 25% damage to carapace armoured enemies. Where as a ranged Ogryn with the exact same weapon, can only replicate a Crusher two shot via action skill utilizing hail of fire. Am i the only one that thinks this is stupid? Last time i checked ranged ogryn should excel at ranged damage.
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Ogryns are designed not to excel at ranged damage
I do not play ranged Ogryn because I feel like I am just wasting Veteran’s ammo that he can spend much better than I ever could
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Funnily enough Feel No Pain is also a better keystone for ranged builds than Burst Limiter Override for most ranged builds with the exception of twin linked stubbers and maybe rippers.
I think the unfortunate reality is just that the Ogryn tree is horribly designed and it’s full of trash nodes nobody actually cares about. This is doubly true for ranged Ogryn, the only node from top to bottom that I would even say is relevant at all for Ranged Ogryn are Bruiser (not even a ranged node) and 25% ammo. The rest are all eh who cares. Like this:
Wow, 8% crit? Now my ranged crit is 12%. Actually 9% because the Twin Stubbers have -3% crit chance iirc lol. Massive! Psykers get a talent that gives them a guaranteed crit every 5 headshots. Zealots have a talent that gives them 25% crit chance. Vets have like 15% base crit chance and get 5% on the tree just by pathing, and have melee talents that give them 10% crit chance and 25% finesse and one that gives them 50% crit for aiming. Seeing the tuning issue here? And this is ignoring the bigger problem which is that Ogryn has no synergies. Vet can build around crit, so can zealot and psyker. Ogryn just can’t because the only thing he gets for it is flechettes and they’re only relevant on one weapon family. And finally for completeness sake, crits on Ogryn suck ass because his weapons have very low finesse modifiers. A crit on a twin linked stubber will do like 10% more damage than a non-crit.
I don’t mean to complain about this talent in particular but this is how Ogryn talents are balanced especially on the ranged tree. Incoherent, nonsensical buffs that have no synergy with anything else and don’t feel impactful. Meanwhile other classes get gamechanging talents like death resist, crits not consuming ammo (on a class that can have consistent 50%+ crit), guaranteed crits and more.
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Ogryns being designed not to excel at ranged damage is false given that they have a ranged tree and have a action skill that only works with ranged weapons. If you said they were weak in regards to range damage i would agree with you but them being weak in regards to ranged damage is not a design choice but more of a balancing issue. That being said im not here to argue semantics on what ogryns should or shouldnt be good at. Im just bringing up the fact that with ranged weapons melee ogryns excels over ranged ogryns. Which is a design error
Yea its really dumb. I would like to add onto this. What skill points you grab on ogryn has very low impact on your “build” and what truly matters is which weapon you bring and what modifiers it has. Example Delvers pickaxe the overhead swing of the delvers pickaxe regardless of mark with limbsplitter and thrust will always oneshot headshot crushers this is true for ranged build true for melee build true for tank build. Now this makes pick one of the best weapons ogryn can bring. Im not saying nerf pickaxe (Ogryn shouldnt be getting any nerfs in the condition that he is in presently maybe after a skill tree revamp a nerf to pickaxe might be a conversation worth revisting) im just saying that it doesnt matter what build i bring this weapon will always perform. Ogryn seems to be in a desperate need of a skill tree revamp. Me bringing pickaxe is almost just as effective on melee ogryn as it is ranged. Point is the weapon alone shouldnt dictate what “build” you are playing and with the current state of ogryn it very much feels like it does.
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Eh…considering the current damage output of a well build gun lugger “class”, yes I think you complaining about an edge case is indeed…lacking perspective.
This is where looking at a detailed scoreboard is handy. Gun lugger ogryns are ammo hungry, but the results are there, and trivialise higher difficulties.
I think it’s fair to say that simultaneously the ogryn talent tree can be ridiculously boring, low impact and bad, but also Ogryns powerlevel is generally good.
I don’t necessarily think the class needs an overall buff either, but the talents are just so bland. When I pick PBB and do a gunlugger build I don’t feel like “I’m playing a ranged class” I feel like “I picked PBB over heavy bleed” because that’s the literal sole relevant distinction.
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I feel like I’m going to need a nap after a game or two on a gun lugger. For me gun lugger is pure boredom, especially stuff like precision and weapon control aren’t rewarded. “Wow, look at all that damage… 
”
Back in time when Battlefield games were good (it has been a while…) mastering a gun was an extremely fun aspect of the shooting experience, and added substantially to the game replay-ability. Darktide shooting experience is simply NOT THERE. Whatever this is by design or poor design, I’m happy to disagree about.
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Me using the new heavy stubber as a comparison was more so to explain why the damage difference mattered and less so to “discuss an edge case” Every weapon has a lower base damage as ranged ogryn vs melee this is because of the aforementioned rending effects that ogryn gains in his melee tree. I was making point that 2 shots vs 3 matters allot in a game like darktide even if the damage difference is between 50-100. The difference not killing a crusher and killing a crusher adds up. This is very applicable to other weapons as well like the the Rumbler (edit i mixed up the grenadier gauntlet with the rumbler). Do not mistake my one example as a “edge case” just because i wasnt willing to write a 3000 word thesis on ogryn. Is there a benefit to investing points into range? of course there is. But the fact of the matter is if you shoot harder it requires less shots to kill which means you consume less ammo. Ergo theres a benefit to ranged weapons in the left tree that shouldn’t realistically be there. If you want to hit harder with ranged weapons you should go left tree and not right which does not make any sense. If you wanted a build entirely centered around range damage then yes you should go right tree but that is due to reasons that go beyond “damage per bullet” and lean into Dpm (damage per minute) and ammo capacity/ammo consumption. I am very simply saying that ranged ogryn should deal more damage per shot with ranged weapons then melee ogryns.
10% rending is only really helping DoT, literally save a point or two by taking Hail of Fire for PBB instead of pathing through Delight in Destruction which is a dead node without any bleed. alright mb
I had some bad math here so I’m editing
I just now tested it ingame. On the achlys heavy stubber without carapace damage, 10% rending takes it from 643 damage headshot to 786. On a surgical + deadly accurate crit headshot it goes from 1129 to 1360. I’d say it’s not nothing, 22.2% bonus on a headshot, 20% on a crit headshot with deadly accurate. On a gorg with opening salvo it also works out to be like a 25% damage increase. Definitely the sort of benefit that lets you hit breakpoints, I just wanted to say 10% rending can help these sorts of weapons, not just dots.
Also after testing this I also just realized that the 5% rending node only melee trees can get further throws this off. Realistically a gunlugger will do even less damage to crushers with this gun, unless he has his rending active on. It is a pretty silly dynamic that makes relatively little sense. Gunlugger should have a rending approach of its own or something, other than the active.
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Before ranged Ogryn gets an overhaul, which I think it should, I really want to see Achyls Twin Linked Stubber + Light Em Up combo nerfed/removed. The insane amount of fire stacks you get paired the Achyls high rate of fire can melt everything that isn’t a crusher and is super unfun to play with.
The Achyls stubber feels pretty bad damge wise imo, the only good thing being the responsiveness of it. I feel like it’s kept in this awful state because of this combo.
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This is one of those stacking talents that really should work differently to how it does. Different weapons should scale differently with it so it’s not just a bad choice for some. EG: 1 stack per Achlys bullet, 4 stacks on a rumbler direct hit and 1 stack for the explosion. Etc. Cap the max fire stacks as needed.
Similar for other restrictive things like heavy hitter, increase the cap size to 10 (and lower the buffs per stack), light attacks give 1, heavies give 2-3.
That involves actually digging into the stuff though.
I was wondering if they should tool that to make it inflict burn stacks based on the amount of damage it inflicts, and then obviously lowering the max stacks down to 16 like all other sources of burn. I really want it to not be garbage for eg. grenade gauntlet without making something like achlys busted.
I’m assuming the burn dot applying on the AoE even at half the amount would be too busted? Cause it not doing so is the main reason I wouldn’t ever take it with GG or Rumbler.
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