there are definitely some great choices but the majority of them, including the keystones feel either weak or are really boring. hope this gets a full rework soon
I find the capstones donât really change your playstyle all that much.
Unlikely. Donât think there are enough people who play Ogryn, let alone those of us who do feel that he needs a âfullâ rework for Fatshark to notice, nor feel compelled to do something about it. However, Iâd love to see some improvements on the talent tree before Burst Limiter Override and of course the keystone itself. Loyal Protector ability, Stay Close! aura and Bombs Away! blitz could use an upgrade.
If you use Feel No Pain you can use the extra survivability to play more aggressive to do more damage or if you use Heavy Hitter youâll do more damage and thus wonât be in prolonged fights as much raising your survivability, so the end point of both the keystones feels the same, at least for me.
Weak?
Definitely not for âthe majorityâ.
Boring and uninspired? Absolutely.
Every melee bonus is about heavy attacks, BLO gives you barely noticable (as in you really donât notice even if the effect is relevant) passive bonuses, and a lot of the notable passives mostly give you incremental benefits to something you already have.
It doesnât help that his main schtick, knocking down groups of enemies, frequently doesnât actually help the team.
Edit: Itâs also things like how the best way to get bleed stacks for defense, and recover toughness, is to repeatedly bash enemies with a kickback or rumbler. Itâs efficient, itâs fast enough that itâs more pleasant than using the actual melee weapon, but it is kind of weird that that ended up my go-to.
@googley_eyes Iâm not going to disagree, but please put some detail behind that.
What is weak.
Where do you feel itâs missing.
What canât you do you think you should?
Why doesnât it compare?
Because honestly - Ogryns I play with get a poop tonne of damage, can make or break a mission, and generally arenât âweak or boringâ.
For me: Iâd like a light attack build. For the Ogryn to specialise in heavy swings, that donât do much more damage than a light, I think thatâs bad design. If I was swinging a bat one handed vs two, Iâd do less than half the impact. That should be reflected in damage, not some pseudo toughness regen idea.
Also, if Iâm going to do a 2h swing, and leave myself open for as long as the ogryn does; then I need to be recharging toughness a lot faster. Make it make sense. I take a lot of hits, but I do a lot of damage. If I miss: thatâs bad. Not: âIâm using heavies 'cos talent tree says so.â
Meanwhile; I should accrue aggro FAR faster than I do now. Enemy see me coming, they should all target me. Which opens up a shield build. etc.
Those kind of ideasâŚ
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Youâre right, and the reason is that they jump back up like they are on springs. In a real fight, being knocked down is a disaster, espeically if the other guy is armed with a weapon long enough for him to hit/stab you without getting down himself. Getting up in gear when youâve taken a tumble is hard, and harder the more gear you have (gunners, hint hint.)
This really came home to me when I was testing psyker pushes, which Iâm still extremely salty about since they literally gave the good push to the vet almost a year after they nerfâs the psykineticsâ ult push into the ground so hard itâs not worth using and nerfed the swordâs push as well so itâs easy to miss with.
The vetâs voice of command knocks them flat, and the psyker gives them a slight stagger, but even with the vet, they spring up like dancers with no heavy gear who went down on purpose instead of being knocked suddenly flat by a hostile.
I put a video of the comparison here, look how fast they get up!
I run my Ogryn ranged with a ripper gun. Whatâs absolutely mandatory is âInspiring barrage.â You can get it on the belt fed too, but the ripper seems to kill more.
I prefer the MK5, but the others will work, and âreloadâ is a good perk, and for stats you really want âammoâ as the mag can be anything from 16-21, and 21 means a whole extra burst over 20 or 19, and âstabilityâ as the thing shakes plenty.
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In addition, enemies on the ground are hard to see in a crowded melee, yet can still block your pathing.
If I turn around and see an enemy there, and itâs not the tip of a crusher patrol, I can knock it back, and move. But if thereâs just two groaners, and I push them, and I still canât move because thereâs a poxwalker lying below them, it gets rather irritating.
Stagger is great, but unless itâs the aforementioned crusher patrol, heavy stagger actually makes things worse.
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Choices in the ogryn tree feel weak? Damn man, try the psyker tree and get back to me.
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Thanks Barracuda.
Iâm not short on Ripper Shotguns ⌠
(list extends 10 either way into variant 2s and 6s)
I have a pretty good coverage of shotfuns, machine guns, grenade launchers, and blunderbusses that Iâve accrued over about 140 levels. Iâd say that the blunderbuss (the KickBack) right now is the best gun tbh purely, for me, because if I want to shoot at something, I want to kill it first time.
But youâve missed my point I think. The point Iâm making is that the Ogryn is, and should be, a melee beast. I donât understand why FatShark have made this weird heavy-is-best build, but then implemented it so that you donât do more damage, you do more toughness regen. I canât get on with it, personally. Itâs so jarring from the other 3 characters who are all about not being hit at all. And when Iâm in a horde, I can easily light melee through them, but I canât heavy melee through them half as easily without taking chip damage.
For me, itâs a statement: If you want me to take heavy swings a lot of the time, give me something to heavy swing with. Iâm not going to do a 2 handed knife swing. Give me a club that doesnât take an ice age to swing! As per (and if you donât get the reference, unlucky. Go Google!)
Need the ranged toughness regen trait! Inspiring B lets you get Toughness from just ripping with the gun! Get out of anything with that.
But as to your clarification of your point,
Yeah I know what you mean and I agree 100%. I use a knife almost exclusively with Ogryn, as the ragdolling iwth a club is fairly unsatisfying. I use a Krourk mk VI and almost nothing else, since itâs he4avy attack pattern is simple and easy, and the light isnât much more complex.
Iâd LOVE to get a two handed club like a crusher and send dregs flying clear across the room. Really, Ogryn needs epic knockback on the club, ideally a two handed club.
And there is a bit of a suspicion they wrote themselves into a corner with the Ogryn, since if they unchained him he would dominate the game completely.
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I think the ogryn has some very strong builds and talents available to him, and i personally dont consider him weak.
But I would like to see some more build variety though, something that is more focused on light attacks would be nice as a quick example.
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Originally a mk3, now a mk iv advocate for âstabbyâ goodness. Not really given the vi a run out⌠yet!
Also tried the clubs; I think I like the IIIb, but I donât really know. Feels as though I should go to a lower number for Crusher hits.
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I actually just started my Ogryn and have been playing DT since beta. He is my last character to level to 30. I just got to lvl 25 last night and I have to see I think he is insanely strong.
It might be that I am just better at the game then I was when I last leveled a character (6-7 months ago), but I was doing damnation no problem at lvl 20. Like I was clutching lvl 30 teams it was so easy.
I thought he sucked at 1st, but lvl 20+ really opened things up and now he seems almost OP. The only thing I think he objectively sucks at is long range, but my opinion may change on that as I get experience too.
I use the club and the kickback gun. I focus on stagger/heavy hits and use my gun for medium range hits to ranged enemies primarily.
I rarely use my running ult (forgot what it is called) since my tree doesnât even specialize in it for now. Iâll use it if I get cornered, but that doesnât seem to happen too often.
I agree his keystones seem a little weak compared to my zealots, but overall I think he is super strong
IIIb is the best of them. I usually try to get one weapon of every type, (even if itâs crap) so I can check it on the range.
The IIIB is the only one with a easy pattern. I know some like getting into complicated patterns, but I like to keep it simple so I free up mental resources for other aspects of the game.
The MK VI knife is the best because itâs heavy pattern is flat one way, flat other, repeat. Take the talent for heavy 1 target and heavy multi target, and you can stay up vs most anything. Add in Inspiring Barrage on a ripper and you can do it while shooting ranged as well.
Long range is an issue. I can usually get a sniper with a ripper gun braced, but it isnât easy, and itâs best to let your team get them or use a thrown item. Or just let him be and dodge when heâs about to shoot, as long as you have someone close to wack youâll have toughness.
Yea but thatâs just bad gameplay design imo. All my other 3 classes have an answer to everything in the builds I useâŚexcept Ogryn so far. Iâve been messing with the rock, but it takes aooo much longer to aim accurately and pull it out, etc than my zealots Headhunter autgun for long range stuff
The kickback gun has surprisingly long range but after like 15 meters it seems to do more stagger than damage and shooting something 3 times over 10 seconds to kill it isnât an option.
The tree is fine I mean well designed and doesnât penalise you for moving from one side to the other at least (not like Vetâs tree for example which needs rework in this regard, but thatâs a topic I already addressed in a different post).
Itâs more like rework of ogrynâs talent points you want. Which I can get onboard with. Somebody already mentioned that most passives buff heavy attacks and thereâs nothing for light attacks. I would also like to see an option to build around light attacks too - maybe increased attack speed or even some movement speed buff after x amount of light attack kills etc.
all iâm asking for fatshark is to give my ogryn a zangief style spinning pile driver
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Try lucky bullet with an Achlys Stubber and a IIIb Club.
Amazing ammo pool, amazing kill potential, amazingly fun!
The IIIb club is easy to use, can deal with horde and heavies good for Mauler, Rager and even Crusher and Bullwark. 2-3 hits on the head, done.
I know people say lucky bullet is not worth it, but go for crits and just try it with the Achlys, believe me itâs amazing if you use charmed reload and overwhelming fire or maybe blaze away.
For the club i use Skullcrusher and Haymaker, but maybe go for Thunderous or Momentum.
but for real, iâve posted about this before yet here it is again since i love playing ogryns
the pain points for me with ogryns are the focus on heavy attacks, the lack of rending/brittleness in talent form, knife being the only mobile option and having to make some painful choices in the talent tree (always pick up rock but miss out on free damage ;_; )
we get some especially powerful nodes early on and a lot of toughness in the trees but in comparison to other classes our versions are terrible and might as well not exist
for example 5% rending node. honestly bump that up to 50% and it might be worth it. maybe make it melee only if theyâre worried about magdumping into carapace armor or whatever, but considering vets get free brittleness on everything they do it seems only fair that the big lumbering guy hitting you with a 200lb mallet might ignore armor once in a while.
taunt not having a steroid associated with it also feels wrong. having to make the choice between damage and cooldown reduction is also crazy.
thereâs also the fact that ogryns have a lot of blessings/talents focused on crit but even stacking those is not good. every weapon seems to have a base -% crit chance already so why not forgo the mechanic entirely for the class and give us negative hitmass self buffs like that shock and awe blessing from the thunderhammer no one uses.
give ogryns +50% rending from a talent and instead of dominating being +15% rending after elite kill, make it something like ignore 60% hitmass for 10 seconds.
iâm ok with ogryns not doing THOUSANDS OF DAMAGE in a single hit but i think every hit should be meaningful and smashy