Ogryn will now go down instantly in most missions with 3 gunners. The ampunt of toughness damage the enemies do, is ridiculous. Reduce the famage gunners make to toughness. Its really awful to play the ogryn now as the shield is still only viable weapon now that gunner spawns have been increased. (In b4 get gud, zealot speed runners again make personal attacks on this forum against me)
In addition the pickaxe all variants is too slow, range too short and it does not stagger ogryns. It is an ogryn sized pickaxe, not an ice cream scoop. Please fix this.
So far, the ogryn has been fine for dealing with ranged units across all difficulties.
So unless yesterdayās update included unmentioned buffs to ranged units, or unmentioned nerfs to ogryn defense, this can not be correct.
There are options. You just have to use them.
All classes can be bad against ranged units, if you do not make use of any of their tools for the job.
Use the ogryn shield
Use the ogryn charge to close the gap quickly
Shoot ranged units with your own ranged weapons, or throw grenades at them
Fully agree RE the pickaxe reach. The enemies have to be less than 2ft away to get hit. Itās quite frustrating.
Not sure if anything has changed to gunners but this new map has A LOT of them and snipers in loads of open spaces where there is zero cover, so maybe youāre just noticing it more there. I run with 2 curios with damage against gunner perks for this reason. As an Ogryn youāre a big target.
Unfortunately the vets and long ranged weapon users seem to be ignoring a lot of ranged enemies in my games on the new map and itās giving me carpal tunnel trying to slide and dodge between aiming at every ranged unit with my rumbler
You are correct that these are options (and include options I quite like playing on my Ogryn), but Iād like to tackle these one at a time.
The Shield: There are a ton of other melee options in the game. The game just introduced three new melee options for Ogryns, in fact! So, saying there is āone correct melee optionā inadvertently lends credence to the idea that the game is poorly balanced. But! This isnāt your only option, so letās continue onward.
The Charge. Again, there are two other activatable Abilities you can use. Now, you might say, āBut if you have a Taunt-gryn, why donāt you have a shield?ā Well, one of the strengths of Darktide is that you can spec your characters in all sorts of interesting ways. For example, I have a Taunt-gryn with a Bull Butcher thatās speced as hard as it can for Toughness recovery which works great because, as long as Iām in melee, Iām basically indestructible. So, there shouldnāt be just one-way-to-play each specific Ability; that would be poor game design.
Shoot ranged units with your own ranged weapons. In theory, this works for all builds ā¦ except that many Ogryn weapons have large projectiles that, physically, cannot reach ranged enemies that stand in certain locations. If a gunner is standing behind a chainlink fence, most other classes can shoot it back, but a lot of Ogryn loadouts leave you getting absolutely shredded with little recourse. Most grenades wonāt reach behind a chainlink fence or up into a distant gantryway, behind a railing, either.
Use cover. This has been a consistent problem with Ogryn. They are so big, cover thatās good for other classes leaves them consistently getting clipped by incoming fire. But, at the same time, cover can absolutely block movement as you try to rush forward to close, or dodge away back into regular cover. Those ground-based pieces of cover that most other classes can crouch behind are pure death-traps for Ogryn, with absolutely no benefit other than to slow you down and make sure you get shot more. Taking alternate routes is a good suggestion ā¦ when available. There are a number of points where there are no alternate routes.
Sliding. Sliding is how Iāve survived most of my range fire. Iām used to playing smaller, mobile classes, so Iāve gotten pretty good at it - especially since Iām now familiar with most of the maps and can avoid getting caught on terrain. But, unfortunately, it only helps you for so long. And, if you are, say, playing a new map with a lot of visual noise so itās harder to spot the things on the ground that will lead you to getting caught on terrain and shredded by gunners ā¦ Well. Letās just say that Iāve seen a lot of Ogryn go from full health to half in seconds on this new map. Especially in the first event, where thereās a lot of open spaces for gunners to shoot, stuff hanging down from the ceiling for Ogryn projectiles to get caught on, cover thatās too small for an Ogryn to take advantage of, but still IS tall enough to restrict their movement as theyāre getting bracketed by multiple gunners.
Correct. You have different options.
But you also have those two options that i mentioned.
If someone has massive issues with ranged units, they might want to consider using something that helps them deal with those ranged units.
The other three points have limitations on all classes.
The point is, that if you want to be able to deal with ranged units, you can do that.
If you choose to not make use of even one of the options available, it is not a problem with the class itself.
Your own ranged weapons can kill them or stagger them while you move to cover or close distance. The grenade gauntlet is great for this. Youāve got the shield, and you can charge at them with the career skill. Thereās almost always places you can fight where youāre not in their line of sight. You can use grenades or rocks. You can wait for them to stop firing before you try to push toward them.
The picks are pretty great IMO. Except the one thatās all overheads, that one sucks. The range on the attacks is about average, but the range on the hook pull specials is both huge and will stagger everything short of a boss. It even opens up bulwark shields. Try it out.
First part of the sentence suggests to me a āskillā gap, the second part is full out speculation and likely incorrect.
All that suggests to me is skiing issue, literally I donāt want to speculate further. I assume you combo weapons correctly, have decent builds with good HP and toughness ration, gunner protection on curios, you know when and how to dodge slide etc.
Those are new weapons, give it some time. I also feel I get hit more, but its a matter of working with the right combos, and blessings. The light pick axe should be the easiest to get use to. Pick axes are fairly slow and high damage, which might mean that the bleed toughness DR is harder to maintain. No idea about your builds, try combing pickaxes with Feel No Pain. That is working out well for me.
You are a big target with tiny dodges, Ogryn always gets hit more, and I defo noticed I was getting hit more with pick axes. That improved somewhat when I started paying attention to attack rotations more. I hope that if you waltz into a room full of gunners, you are a man with a plan and donāt expect just to survive?
I see, I present a valid criticism and the try hards go: ā muh skills ā. Instead of actually addressing any of the points that I made. Please go and pollute some other forum.
That was full on ātongue-in-cheekā comment, thatās why āskillsā is in quotation marks. I honestly cannot contribute more without knowing more, maybe seeing how you play Ogryn yourself. If you want more constructive comments, share a build maybe? Your HP / toughness pool?
What I am saying that it is one of the few weapons that are viable to the Ogryn it is not a question having a different weapon but currently he is too squishy: most maps do not have the cover for ogryn.
He was previously in much better place this is of course IMO but he is the biggest target and will get hit from most angles, especially on auric. I am saying it also is a map design issue, as you pointed out there are little alternative routes in some maps. Especially now that the enemy spawn points have been increased thw likelyhood of getting shot from multitude of angles. The nerf to his toughness really bit hard. Previously he could have more toughness and was tankier, which is the whole point of the class.
The Ogryn is supposed to be a towering bulwark, if I want to slide around I will just play the zealot or vet. Its not his forte. He IS supposed to be tanky. Currently he is not.
You can disagree ofc. However I would hope that at least the personal āgit gudā comments would be left to other places. It is a deflection of criticism rather than answers any valid points. It is rather a sign of immature character and does not address the core issue: balance is off.
It is not constructive nor useful to anyone. It simply makes everyone hate each other in this forum.
In addition kickback reload speed is much slower now than it was preciously. Do not know if this is a bug or not.
In addition he is vulnerable to trappers and any kind of specials especially hounds that seem to bounce even from allies, due to his size, making melee (contact) a risky prospect.
I just want to see that the issues such as the stagger is fixed, for him to be in a place that he should be.
I play melee focused Ogryn regularly with clubs (Mk II / 3b), knives Mk IV and VI, the OG shovel, Rippers (all of them really), Nade Gauntlets with a mix of builds cantered around bleed, Hard Hitter and Feel No Pain. Those are ALL very viable weapons and builds for Ogryn. There is virtually NO terrible weapon Ogryn atm, even Power Maul got an overhaul and whilst I havent had a chance to try it out since, I suspect they finally fixed it.
I have no idea why you are so hung up on the shield. Itās boring, lacks mobility and visibility. Itās often also a noob trap (Im suggesting nothing here btw, just based on what I have seen people doing with the shield). Darktide isnt a cover based game, its mobility focused. Charge into groups of gunners, suppress, kill at range, slide into them if you must. Keep them close and maintain bleed for extra DR.
This is what I run with the OG shovel and now pick axe with few changes. For example Iām currently playing around with Mk II bleed/crit based ripper, which is far from optimal, but fun for me. Assuming I end up in an average game with average run time, average enemy numbers, average players, you can easily pull 700-800k damage mark and stay on the frontline. Shovel offers you easier rotations and better crowd control, but with right blessings and playstyle if offers decent, all-arounder damage output. Pick axe is more damage centered.
At least for mid pick axe (Borovian) basic combos are: mixed horde seems to be Heavy 1 into Light 1 with occasionally push attack. This allows you to maintain bleed stacks. Elites / monsters, a mix of special attack into heavy 2, into 2 light attacks as far as I remember from yesterday.
Ofc positioning with him is important, but the reach on the pickaxe is not enough to reach the enemy, having a weapon that size should make him reach a lot more.
I tried with a heavy hitter build, max trinkets 17% tougness +5% hp+ toughness regen+ dmg reduction gunners (on all) maxing on 217 toughness and something above 350 or something hp. 3x this.
Perks to gain toughness from hit (both), then reduced damage from ogryns lynchpin
Then max toughness, from traits, then left, rocks max bleed, heavy attack impact. + then charge with, toughness regen. Heavy attack damage; then either heavy hitter with right line / and finally 2/3 on the last perks / movespeed with ranged
Same deal when playing the middle; tree. Kickback, rumbler, or gorgonum.
Melee; have all weapons over 375 at least;
Perks; pickaxe slaughterer + the toughness regen one. Weakpoint dmg / carapace
Or unarmored / carapace
Ogryn with pickaxe toughness regen heavy talents + the toughness regen blessing is invincible right now. As a Psyker, hearing an ogryn complain about ranged damage and toughness shredding is ridiculous.
Try out Feel No Pain, you are unlikely to miss that extra HH damage, attack speed is nice but the current attack rotations, at least on the mid-pick arenāt that slow. As Skaleek mentioned above, give Slow and Steady blessing a try also if you feel your toughness regen is still too slow. I had no chance yet myself, All Or Nothing blessing just leads to too hilarious damage outputs and helps with push attack horde clear. Confident Strike should be also good on faster attacks.
A lot of that stuff is going to be circumstantial, running games with 3 stealth users is always āfunā, and personal: learning process, your PC performance, game time and āskillā Iām sure.
Gunners are definitely a bigger threat than they used to be - anecdotally, perpendicular sprinting isnāt mitigating as well as I feel it used to - but theyāre not unmanageable. Rock will thin a pack; they helpfully stand very still once they start shooting.
I do think that the levels need fewer chainlink fences - they seem to exist solely to make the Rumbler and GG less viable weapons.
In regards to the pickaxe, I think you do actually have a point- the reach is inconsistent, with the hook pull having excellent reach, but some of the diagonal swings having the dubious distinction of being the only player attacks in the game to not have a reach longer than the model and animation would suggest.
Big 2handers are going to have some tradeoffs relative to the lighter weapons; Iām fine with that. Main things Iād want to see on the picks would be a little more reach on some of the sweep attacks and slightly faster block transitioning/slightly higher shove impact weight - both reasonable things youād get with both hands on the weapon!
As a side note, I love all the attention that went into the weapon handling animations - it looks like they dug out some poleaxe manuals, similar to their longsword research on the BretSword in VT2. Please keep doing that!
I donāt want to speculate further. I assume you combo weapons correctly, have decent builds with good HP and toughness ration, gunner protection on curios, you know when and how to dodge slide etc.