General; Ogryn Melee&Tougness & Lack of 2-Weapons

[Mr.Nixon]

Again I am making a new thread in the hopes that the Ogryn toughness would be fixed, in a way that allows us to prevent chip (health) damage. Currently the Zealot is the new elf of DT, he can do literally anything. So would be cool to have the other classes up to the task as well.

Veteran absolutely squishy, need some toughness replenisment and a way to gain it more reliably, the ammo talent nerf was really brutal, its now literally useless, rarely see anyone taking it. It really sucks

Zealot: absolutely OP at almost anything, rarely see anyone running vet on auric.
Psyker: cannot really say about him, I do not play as one.

Ogryn: toughness, and chip damage, the most annoying thing to any ogryn is the constant chip damage and downing due to his size as he is a big target. Toughness nerfs really killed his tankiness, and made him much less viable as zealot even with heavy hitter. The light attack heavy hitter talent currently only charges when only on light attacks, dunno if this is a bug.

Toughness; for the love of god, just make him be tanky again, he is supposed to be a guy who can drag a tank behind him, but now he can barely pull his weight. It is really immersion breaking having flamers, snipers and others kick him, and get pushed back. I mean damn that kick must be able to break walls. Really would like to see him be able to take the toughness dmg, and not starting take the HP damage, that seems to be the problem.

Branx + Thrust: it should start just 0.2. sec earlier charging to make it much more viable.

Where are all the other 2-handed melee weapons for him. Really would have liked to see grim protocal include new melee weapons for him: 2-handed cleaver, shield variant with cleaver. Getting tired of the pool noodle, shield. Can we get some love finally for the big man instead of nerfs.

The new “Weaves” cough* Havoc system is again repeating the same mistake as VT2, why not invest into new maps and a similar system to chaos wastes, which was amazing. Instead we get leaderboards and more of “Overwatch” type of stuff, that relies on “influencers”. I think most of us would like to see more classes and weapons; including free cosmetics instead of the premium micro**** that you force into our throats. Plz be better Fatshark.

[dannylew8299]

@Mr.Nixon

Veteran absolutely squishy, need some toughness replenisment and a way to gain it more reliably

Look, i don’t want to stand in the way of any class getting buffs, I just want to say the talent Out For Blood gives 5% toughness regen on all kills. A single grenade, one shot of a plasma gun, or just any usual veteran shenanigan will give back a lot of toughness. It ain’t bad.

His squishiness is probably appropriate for what it is and I’m literally playing an off-meta stealth chain axe build with double shotty, otherwise known as the “why are you not playing zealot?” build.

[LVSpooky]

Again I am linking a related post I made about how the ogryn’s talent tree could use some adjustments. Some of my recommended changes could potentially allow for more sustainability, assuming you are willing to invest the points into them. Nothing is free after all.

Dear Fatshark: Talent Tree Changes Of A True Ogryn Geezer

Edit Notice: This post has been updated multiple times and may continue being tweaked until I forget about it or run out of periodic ideas and changes. Some of the things people have read here might be changed. If some comments or quotes don’t match then this could be why. Ogryn main and massive nerd here. I’m a returning player after the Unlocked and Loaded update that let me actually customize my equipment; funny that. I noticed the talent trees for every class have been updated a bit since I…

[OxygenCrimson]

Alright but we nerf VoC first.

[Ralendil]

@Mr.Nixon

Zealot: absolutely OP at almost anything, rarely see anyone running vet on auric.
Psyker: cannot really say about him, I do not play as one.

My main is zealot, so yes I have ton of experience with this class. So, yes, I can do better with it. Like someone that has a psyker as main can deal far higher damages than me, and even if we compare me playing a zealot and the skilled guy with his psyker.

I am sorry but I actually play auric with veteran, ogryn and… psyker.
For maelstrom, only veteran and ogryn cause I have to train with psyker.

I would say that there are things too strong in all classes. But sure, all classes are played differently.
On zealot, holy revenant part is like a trap. You sacrifice 2 points to get a security. This means that you loose a lot of DPS for that. Must say that I took that to do ASS title. Actually, I returned to not use it, even if I still have two builds with it and that are strong.
But without it, the best survivor class is Ogryn. You can literally get perpetual toughness regen with an Ogryn. Things are so easier with the Ogryn.
But I won’t say that this is a better class. I play all of them actually. All of them have their advantages.
As I said in an other post, the zealot has the TDR. Sadly, the best builds rely all around critical hits.
The Ogryn has a lot of ways to get toughness regen. If you sacrifice one blessing, you can get something that will perpetually regen your toughness.
Veteran has VOC. But better than that, the vet role (except on melee) permits it to stay at distance and so to avoid direct hits. Of course, from time to time it will go for melee (hordes or events), but that’s not hard to survive with all the tools the veteran has.
Psyker is the hardest, and also the one that can deal the most DPS of all classes.

Ogryn: toughness, and chip damage, the most annoying thing to any ogryn is the constant chip damage and downing due to his size as he is a big target.

This is due to the change on melee. Before you took a hit, you had toughness you were exempt of any damage. Now, you take x % of damages, x being the % of toughness that remains.
So, that’s a big reason to favor toughness curios.

Toughness; for the love of god, just make him be tanky again, he is supposed to be a guy who can drag a tank behind him, but now he can barely pull his weight.

Seriously, Ogryn has a lot that you can pick to get toughness regen.
I would not say that nothing has to be done, but I don’t consider the current situation as something unfair and totally unplayable. Most of the weapons have toughness regen and the ogryn has a lot of nodes to help this.
If you put everything on toughness for curios (something I do), you get pretty high toughness while still having 300 hp.

Branx + Thrust: it should start just 0.2. sec earlier charging to make it much more viable.

You talk about Pickaxes? these weapons seems too strong in my opinion. Why? cause I always pick them, and I don’t see any reason to go for something else.
Pick axes have Slow and steady that works great with the left keystone. Confident strike works great with everything.

Where I agree is that “feel no pain” should be improved. But there are several talents, on each class, that should be improved. On Ogryn, this keystone looks less appealing than the others cause toughness regen relies on teammates. And here is the problem with rushers, players that can’t succeed to stay alive etc.

Where are all the other 2-handed melee weapons for him.

Agree that the Ogryn needs more weapons.

@dannylew8299

Look, i don’t want to stand in the way of any class getting buffs, I just want to say the talent Out For Blood gives 5% toughness regen on all kills. A single grenade, one shot of a plasma gun, or just any usual veteran shenanigan will give back a lot of toughness. It ain’t bad.

I use to play veteran melee. And Out of blood is absolutely the talent that can saves you.
For ranged veteran, there’s seriously no problem. With all toughness you can get from ranged kills with all toughness talents nodes… not really a problem.