Not sure if this has been stated in a variety of ‘Ogryn bad please help’ posts, but given the announcement today, I ran around on my Ogryn, and realized something that I think compounds all the other issues and is one of the major reasons a good number of individuals have found him to be so lack luster, even pushing past all the recent nerfs making him feel drastically more squishy.
The Ogryn has no innate toughness regen.
I mean, I think what they wanted as the ‘fantasy’ was for toughness replenishment to be their ‘innate regen’, but ohh boy is 2-5 flat toughness a second really NOT gonna matter in the grand scheme of things in this game. And I noticed unlike every other class, they don’t have ‘gain X toughness for free’ buttons.
Don’t think I should get in depth entirely as it’s unwarranted, but just to say a few examples, every other class has at least one ability that generates toughness for you. Psyker and Zealot even have talent nodes that explicitly give toughness for simply doing actions, not even killing anything (though they have that too). And Veteran, while not having so, has a talent that gives him passive regen over a period of time after nabbing an elite or specialist kill, supplementing the lack of ‘existing making him tougher’ while ALSO getting a buffed flat amount for kills in general if they so choose, keeping them in the fight even when there is a lul or a lapse in enemies directly on you (an I already mentioned the CB for dire situations).
But the Ogryn gets none of that, none at all. He gets 3 talents, for hitting one thing hard, hitting many thing hard, and bracing his weapon. EVERY OTHER talent on his tree will not give him toughness, the only other thing coming close is a KEYSTONE UPGRADE that doubles the amount he gets for melee kills. Something that, like 2 out of the 3 talents already, requires him to be in the wave!
And unlike ‘the tinies’ around him, his CB’s don’t give him a flat amount of toughness on activation. One gives him toughness ONLY IF YOU UPGRADE IT and ONLY PER ENEMY HIT, and the other ALSO requires and upgrade and requires you to expend ammo at a rapid rate to see livable returns. And lets not forget, the ability in the middle, the one that literally screams at everything in a radius to hit you?
Yeah, that gives no toughness at all! It doesn’t even give DR! It just micro stuns everything, and then lets you get pounded.
This is just something I noticed really that I think is what makes the Ogryn feel so deeply reliant on their team, unlike the rest of the classes, who get bolstered by their team but can function on their own. Having absolutely no ability to regenerate toughness outside of hitting things makes the Ogryn feel more feast or famine than even the Psyker at this point, as you’re either in the wave, hitting enemies, not getting targeted by specials, thriving. Or getting immobilized and dying instantly, dumping all your ammo to stay alive and sobbing, or charging to far out of position because if you aren’t hitting the enemy, you aren’t getting your toughness back, and those gunners are just ripping you to shreds so you kinda have to deal with them somehow.
It always feels like a ‘mitigation game’ with Ogryn’s because of this, at least to me. You’re never trying to maximize your combat potential, you’re trying to minimize as much of your weaknesses as you can to try and function, and hugging your team like a life line in hopes they’ll make up the difference. I’m sure there are many Ogryn mains who will come in here and say ‘I always feel fantastic on my Ogryn and you should do THIS exact build that provides maximum mitigation and feels good’, but that’s kinda also what I’m getting at as well.
The Ogryn feels limiting, the other classes feel…the opposite of that XD. With Ogryn, due to a lack of these tools, makes every nerf hit that much harder, makes every change feel that much more impactful. Because they rely so heavily on these hyper specific set ups to just, do enough to not fall over, and the constant hammer keeps making that harder and harder to do, while also making it feel that much less ‘fun’ to really try and do it.
As you aren’t experimenting to maximize a loudout, you’re just doing everything you can to stay alive, and I think that isn’t great.
SO…honestly, gonna see what they do with the ‘talent moving’, see if they do anything more than that (hopefully), but, to just slap some ‘idea’s’ here for the sake of doing so/to make this proper ‘feedback’:
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Charge could give 50% toughness on activation, and up to 50% more upon hitting enemies (maybe drop the ‘per enemy hit’ upgrade down to 5% to compensate).
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Taunt I honestly feel should give golden toughness on cast to JUST the Ogryn (probably 50 like shout), but in loo of doing that, this ability getting the toughness on hit as well and being able to full refresh when taunting a horde just feels like it should have been there from the start.
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Barrage I feel is the most fine of the three/works well with the buffed braced talent, only thing for me would be maybe pulling a mag from thin air if it’s activated while ammo’s dry? I know that might lean into automatic weaponsa bit to much, but it just feels terrible having to be such an ammo hog with this active, and getting 12% toughnesss for 1 shot weapons that have less of an ammo problem while guaranteeing at least a refresh for mag dump ones that tend to run dry just feels right, especially since it auto reloads. Could even make it an offshoot upgrade, so it at least consumes a talent but makes the long CD make sense. Call it ‘my lucky mag’ or something.
WElp, I tried, seems people are quite happy with his languishing state, though I could have surmised that given the responses to other threads. Doesn’t effect me much though, quite happy with the other 3 classes and their extensive amount of build variety. If Ogryns are happy to sit on their 2 builds that barely help the team as much as half a build on Zealot can do, then by alll means. Happy to carry the big men, regardless of the fact they can’t carry themselves.
