A post I figured I’d make over here instead of in the Discussion thread, but there’s a back and forth talk about the ‘feeling of Ogryn’ going on over there in two separate discussion posts, so I figured I’d put my idea’s here so they are in the right place!
I said it in my original reply but the fact an ogryn can get beset by a dog or a net WHILE ALSO having no mobility options, obscene stamina costs, and a hit box so big that when they do try and dodge they will more often than not get stuck on something, be it terrain or a random pox walker running up behind you, is just abysmal. Going back to play other classes made me realize something else to, which is that my tiny Psyker/Zealot/Vet can slide under dogs but obviously my Ogryn can’t, which further exacerbates the issue felt as I naturally slide around all over, making me naturally get missed by dogs but not on my Ogryn! : D
That I feel is the one major thing I wish could be edited in some way. If the Ogryn is going to be a lumbering behemoth of a man with everything they do being slow but supposedly powerful, let them have that fantasy. All their weapons take an age to pull out (seriously why do I have to do the ‘flip up’ animation every time) making them very incapable of dealing with most things ‘immediately’, even the rock often can’t be pulled out and thrown fast enough to even try and deal with a special. And your stamina consumption is so large that more often than not, you just won’t have the stamina to push if you’re trying to also keep up with your team, making it feel abysmal when you’re trying to catch up but op, because you’re permanently behind your faster team mates a immobilizing unit spawned to punish you because you are alone, and now you’re long pull out times and inability to push/incapacitate them result in you instantly falling over! : D and now you’re far away from your team AND you have to hope they come back to save you, great!
Just doesn’t feel like ‘big burly guy who should be on the front lines’ material to me, and to actually put some form of ‘solution’ here, I feel some talents like this would be awesome when it comes to making them feel a WHOLE lot better and a whole lot like the flavor they are based on, without detracting from balance TO heavily (to me at least);
Conditioned: Sprinting doesn’t cost stamina, given they get no other abilities to keep up with there team, this would help them do so, and maybe even stay ahead of them while also being able to deal with the immediate threats they run into. This would make their stamina consumption make a lot more sense to, as they can just omit the cost if they want, meaning if they don’t they have decided not to be ‘conditioned’ to do so. (to disclaimer this to, pushes and dodging bullets still costs stamina as normal, this would just remove sprinting from costing stamina).
Truly Strongest!: Dodging knocks away immobilization (dogs/trappers, maybe mutants but don’t have to include that) costing like, 2-3 or even more stamina, this fixes their lack of mobility making dodging such advances absolutely abysmal, while also making getting caught on things or being surrounded by combatants (something taunt literally encourages to happen) not matter, as even if the immobilization hits you you just ‘knock it away’. This brings back the ‘timed dodges’ test for Ogryns, without (to me) making it be THAT broken, as in technicality this should already be happening with a well timed dodge itself like on other classes. This just leans into the ‘unstoppable’ fantasy.
Pained Outburst update: Baring the above being ‘to strong’, just let Pained Outburst pop you out of a net as well as it’s knock back of a dog functionality. It wouldn’t really fix everything as it would still force you to take a full keystone to get access to it, but it’s at least something to help alleviate these pains.
These are my current thoughts, to be weighed in on by the masses!
Yeah overall anything that is “because Ogryn” I’m generally for lol. Charging with a battery in hand for instance, would be incredible! Much cooler than slide spam…
I’d rather consider “Pushing doesn’t cost stamina” rather than sprinting, as I don’t see the Ogryn as a marathon runner, more like:
Honestly can agree with it instead being pushes for sure! The idea just mostly came about by someone in the Discussion threads lamenting that Ogryns are intended to be ‘super well trained with incredible stamina, and yet running tires them out in 2 seconds’. So I leaned more toward the idea that the act of their ‘lumbering run’ doesn’t take them any extra effort than walking.
But being able to always push would do the same thing I’m mainly aiming for here, which is just the fact that NOT being able to just kinda feels extra awful on Ogryn as they don’t have as capable dodges as the rest. So being able to run for free so a push is always available (because big and strong), or always be able to push but run still consumes it, both are just fine in my book!
And yeah, charging with a payload would be great to, you already do the ‘football run’ why not be able to cup a battery in there?
I actually didn’t know that it was possible to dodge the dog, and anytime I’ve actually done it, I thought it was luck, but then I stared playing more of Zealot and I was shocked that I had more options and that dodging was actually reliable.
Yeah , people may say that is not hard to catch up, but have they ever tried to follow the Veteran with Stealth, who just runs along the map, don’t think so.
(I believe that the better the player plays, the more they inclined to rush the map, I have observed that in myself and some other people, it happens because they just feel comfortable with most threats that come their way I think)
But, not all of the playerbase are like this, so more often than not, it’s possible.
This sounds interesting, it’s like a push that can delete nets and stagger mutants.
I’d change the Truly Strongest! idea to “Effective dodges knock man-sized enemies out of the way.” Dodging’s only effect on stamina should be to pause its regeneration, and having a dodge cost stamina would make this talent entirely worthless IMO. It’s not like Ogryn dodging goes very far, either.
Slayer Bardin in VT2 has this exact talent, mind, but nobody takes it because the other two talents at that level grant hefty damage resistance bonuses, which are much-needed in a game without toughness.
Not to try and ‘keep this thread alive’, but me and a friend where discussing this a bit more, and came up with an idea that felt rather fun too, so I figured I’d place it in this thread as well as an alternative possibility.
Update to Loyal Protector: Upon taunting, all enemies around you target only you for 15s, gain X% toughness damage reduction and immunity to immobilization for 15s. Or, more than likely, bake the radius effect into the base skill, and then make the ‘DR and immobilization immunity’ into the capstone upgrade of the skill. This would give taunt some much needed utility beyond ‘I briefly stunned everything in a radius, the same thing my charge does on a lower cooldown but now they all wanna kill me’, while also making the two upgrades before it actually have a choice. (do I want to do more damage to these guys? or do I want to have this effect up more? verses right now where it’s just ‘do I want my taunt to do something? or die more often for no benefit? : D’ ). Could make the DR based on enemies hit as well, if just a flat number seems a bit to OP for say, a single monstrosity taunt.
, people may say that is not hard to catch up, but have they ever tried to follow the Veteran with Stealth, who just runs along the map, don’t think so.