I noticed that in the new skiltree it does somewhat nerf ogryn’s over all toughness that he can have.
(For reference I’m not taking curios into account here because it complicates things, also adding curios into this doesn’t change the end result.)
With the current skilltree we can use, you can get 110+ extra base toughness from just the operative nodes. Which can give you an even 160 toughness when added to ogryn’s base 50 in the old skilltree.
The new skilltree for ogryn can only give you +65 extra base toughness from the operative modifiers. However ogryn is getting his base toughness buffed to 75, but even then he can only get 140 base toughness in total.
I’m just concerned because this could be a quite big nerf for ogryn’s tankiness.
So as a suggestion for the developers,
this could be easily fixed by making ogryn’s base toughness even 100 like on veteran.
And I don’t think this would be overpowered because, combining this with the operative modifiers in the new skilltree it would still only net ogryn 165 base toughness at maximum, which is only 5+ more toughness than we could get in current, old skilltree.
I think that this would be fair considering how many operative modifiers got exhanged for skill nodes.
Also it would let ogryn benefit more from the new Damage Reduction nodes better and would let him still play into the tank role better. And it’d give ogryn more flexibility in using curios, so you can take 3 health or 3 toughness curios, or mix of the 2. Which gives more build variety.
Otherwise I think this new skilltree looks fantastic and the developers have done a great job working on it.
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I usually go with 2 25s, 3 15s which is basically the same as new 2 25s +25base & the 1 15 only a net loss of 5 toughness unless you build for the 4th 15 T then you’ll be losing 20 toughness. Still puts ogryn well over 200 toughness with curious by just removing the nodes and testing.
I was also thinking this loss bigger than it was
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I’d still prefer a higher base toughness of 100 since it would give you more baseline survivability, and it’d also free up a skillpoint that you can use elsewhere in the skilltree so you aren’t forced to take +15 always if you want to have 200 toughness with 2 toughness curios.
So giving you more options, you could use it on the +15 node if you want to, or you could use it on another skill like +25% ammo or something else.
There are more ways to regain tougness now though and more toughness dr so I don’t think it will be a problem but I could be wrong.
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Not sure your curio build but can get over 200 toughness with just the 2 25s toughness and 17%+5% toughness curios (3)… that what i plan on doing and just skipping the extra 15 for all the raw damage.
That is true, but we’ll see. I hope I’m wrong.
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I run 1 health curio with 2 17% toughness curioscurrently, both obviously have 5% toughness as well.
And you can’t get 200 toughness with just 125 base toughness and 2 toughness curios it nets you around 180 only. You need the +15 to get the over 200.
yah you’d need 3 toughness curios, i dont even run 5% health as my secondaries 17% toughness, 5%toughness,20% gunner resist,~% CD reductions
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I will say, the rework does seem to be very ‘zealot like’ in terms of the Ogryns constructions. Will say I also run the 3 toughness curios (since you already have an extra wound being Ogryn and I don’t value health because I can’t regenerate that when sh!t hits the fan, so having more of it I never usually feel to often verses taking less of a percentage of my toughness for me to regen to tank the next hit) and only one of my builds ever grabbed all the toughness nodes present to me, so 200+ toughness is quite enough for me and gets me through most things.
But to actually say what I mean, zealot currently runs around with 70 base toughness (5 less than even rework Ogryn has), and has at most 60 extra toughness they can get in any one build (with them often even running just a 45 increase instead). And yet they make it work even with full wound curios because of the sheer amount of toughness DR they can have plus the good amounts of regen on top of it. Most of my Zealot builds tend to run around with 133 (for the wound builds) to 191 toughness, with only like one hitting 216, and despite that I’ve never really felt like I’ve had a problem on them snuffing off hits due to how little bleeds through and how quickly you can get back to tanking the next one.
Ogryn I feel will be much the same with a lot of their changes. We’ll have to see how it actually plays, given they do have a massively increased size as well, but I think with a lot of the tools they’ve been given they’ll be able to both regen and keep their toughness high during most engagements, and with the DR keep the bleed through low as well. ‘Big Zealot’ really.
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Oh, you know what is missing? HP nodes.
I forgot about this fatty build i have
+110 toughness and 15% hp
Muh numberrrrrs
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Fatshark knows HP is an emergency resource not a restorable, toughness/toughness reduction is all that matters… and not getting hit.
Counter point: i like bigger number and Hp is a better corruption resist than actual corruption resist 
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How is HP a better resistance to corruption than corruption resistance? I’m genuinely curious.
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Corruption is a flat damage attack to your HP.
Corruption resist = less corruption damage
But more HP is more HP corruption would have to chew through before it consumes a wound.
So if a havoc snot pool is 10 corruption damage a second. 30% corruption resist takes 3 damage off so now it’s 7 damage a tic. (I know that’s not the actual snot corruption damage).
Consider my fatty build with no corruption resist is rocking 400+ hp after all curios are added. Max HP curio + hp nodes is 525 HP which is a meme but if I have to account for fighting in havoc snot as well as havoc hp penalty, I can still eat way more corruption than anyone else.
Also consider if a beacon of purity zealot is on team, that blank space of missing hp that’s a small blip on my health bar becomes my renewable resource to push into hordes and stop the snot blots from cornering my team, I have triple/quadruple/quintuple their HP so I can do that.
I don’t have any literature or source code to prove this so apologies, but if I’m crazy wrong someone will correct me in 0.1 seconds, this forum loves to do that. 
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Interesting, I might have to try that as Ogryn once the update drops.
After looking more carefully at the new Ogryn skill tree…I am a little concerned.
I’m not sure it feels like a buff at all but will have to play it to see.
Anyone else having concerns?
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Ogryn will be borderline OP i have a feeling. Speaking about tankiness Taunt that gives toughness and toughness regen with CDR farm on stagger has almost no CD, like 4-6 sec or something.
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Ogryn rework is actually tankier for HP by default and can potentially be for Toughness too if you invest into tanky passives. There is more damage reduction on the skill tree that applies to health as well as toughness.
The ogryn’s inherent passive that grants 20% damage reduction and 20% toughness damage reduction is also getting buffed to 25% for both which is quite a nice buff regardless of what talents you pick.
This isn’t even mentioning the better options for toughness sustain that the tree now has.
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It depends how you see it.
For sure here have been improvements.
Bull rush now counting as dodging, toughness replenishment on Loyal Protector for sure count as buffs.
Also now the Gun Lugger tree synergise with kickback and rumbler
Buuuuuut… Bruiser got nerfed pretty bad.
Edit.
From the game lantern tree seems that also Delight in Destruction got nerfed from stacking 6 times to 4.
I Don’t know… I’m starting to think that fatshark didn’t understand the assessment.
I hope at least this change don’t go live.
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It stacks 6 times right now, it’s going down to 4, because we are getting a vast array of other ways to gain DR. So instead of only being functional inside a wave, you can now partly function outside of it, mainly with things like Pumped Up and Can’t Hit Me…Again. Heavy hitter also gives a bit of DR now too, along with a few talents related to allies having trouble making you stronger.
If one ‘maths it out’, this Ogryn tree will basically always be doing a massive amount more damage than the previous tree, and be taking less damage overall as well. Not to mention on can more consistently proc Delight in Destruction as well, since now instead if just being on heavy attack resulting in most of the enemies dying before you can feel the benefit, it procs on lights now too, letting you actually hold on to the 4 stacks you do have wayyy more consistently than the 6 that one often never felt anyway since every character is so adept at just dropped waves now.
At base, fighting like a line of crushers, you’ll be a lot stronger, while in a massive wave, you’ll probably feel about the same, but have the ability to still dodge (as you’ll knock things over), which is huge.
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