Ogryn’s new talent tree feels way over tuned. Your basically able to reach every ability you’d ever want with little cost. Some of the DR and Damage numbers could be tuned down but I’ll leave that for others to crunch numbers.
I find issue with the structure being too well designed. I think they should add a few tax talents at top (all to +15 toughness, probably also swap the +15 T below for another 5% TDR) and cut out a few paths that make it too fast to get to Keystones. Added a cross path for fun to remove lock outs and provide more decisions. Instead of outright nerfing could move the most valuable talents to corners of tree such as Batter… probably much of the post Ability talents should be shuffled with the best damage at the extremities and the universal utility in more prominent central locations (Bruiser/Get stuck in)…2nd imaged example of some shuffles with branch changes.
With these few adjustments Ogryn will be on par with Veteran (the most balanced tree) from start to keystone cost of (17 talents) while now tying for best Stretch to get any passive he might want off his main track.
Personally I’d wish he gained more utility talents, game changing talents rather than so much raw number damage. Swap & Braced speeds, movement while braced. His best change “barge” pushing enemies aside while dodging was free iconic.
Is Ogryn Overpowered compared to other classes?
Yes
No
Maybe
0voters
How should his talents be changed?
Torn Down
Tweaked Down
Replace some with Utility
Amped Up
Nothing
0voters
Do you think its too easy to get the talents you want?
Given Havocs difficulty I say its necessary. You pretty much need a tank. Whether the player can actually use that OP’ness or just picks a pickaxe and a heavy stubber and ignores everything it could do is another matter. Whic his the point.
Ogryn was the last class that I decided to level up and I was so surprised how good their tree is. Almost no dump talents, though gun ogryn is still inferior and I rarely see it on high difficulties.
Anyway it made me dream of such options on other classes especially veteran. I hope, developers will keep this pace up in future updates
Most forum polls show people do not want to balance game around havoc rather balance havoc.
I’d still suspect other classes to get similar treatment just looking at the vet stats above they have a surplus of operative modifiers removing half and streamlining tree, fix some talents add a few and it would give Veteran tree similar effect.
Gun Ogryn talents still need some love his ability has a 80s CD too which may only be so long because of keystone CDR =/ Vet executioner stance can be maintained longer, and with a shorter CD.
Also while buffing Ogryn in raw numbers didn’t give em any fun mobility talents or braced / bracing speed which could help the slow shooter.
Actually if you want to do melee damage you can’t take a bunch of the damage reduction and aggro stuff for tanking. If you want to tank you can’t take a bunch of the cleave and melee damage and attack speed you need to horde clear while still effectively dealing with melee elites. If you want your lucky bullet and explosion radius for the grenade launcher you can’t take the talents necessary for melee damage or tanking, and the same is true for making your twin linked stubber an effective boss killer.
You can’t just look at a tree and say “it has so many nodes therefore bad” you have to actually play the class to get a feel for where it’s at.
Also if you haven’t seen ogryn gunner maybe we just have different game experiences.
No, leave Ogryn alone FFS. Paint isn’t even dry on the changes. Psycher and zealot are still more OP than Ogryn.
Just because you see 1 or 2 players being insane with him that doesn’t mean he needs nerfed. How many zealots can solo indefinitely? Does that mean we should nerf them into oblivion too?
Ogryn is now very fun. I know “fun” can be a foreign concept amongst the turbosweats but turbo sweating is certainly not the majority of the player base.
Then let’s all play an unique class…
Actually, Ogryn melee seems really stronger than zealot. Do not wonder more the why we have so many Ogryns and less zealots…
I was playing zealot… I play Ogryn because… perpetual toughness replenishment, more damages than a zealot, any melee weapon can kill crushers, no interuption when you revive someone, big stamina (pretty important in melee combat)…
Zealot is totally viable. I won’t say the contrary. But the ogryn has seen an increase of the power level. And this is a little too much. But I am not stupid. I expect Fatshark to buff zealot / veteran.
Good idea, the game was not enough broken… but now that they reworked psyker and ogryn, allowing them to have a power increase, I don’t see them playing smart and balance all classes to match the power level we had by the past (and not even the power level before patch 13).
The only reason you can’t take all is because of the influx of new talents and physical limitations of 30points. Ogryn has the best reach of all the talents he could want with practically no trade offs as I’ve pointed out in many posts.
This suggestion amounts to a 1 talent point tax in most build cases and the backlash is already present.. balancing isnt fun being OP is fun for the OP player but not the team.
I enjoyed ogryn before and after but I also notice how much easier it is now to lawn mower everything with anything and without much thought. He needs balancing in the future and if players are pearl clutching about 1tp posting for constructive changes has very little hope and FS will just cater into a bloated OP unfun game or balance without our input even more.
I agree it should need a balance. I don’t believe one second they will balance what they just did. We will have to live with that a long time… and that’s why they will again buff, but this time zealot and veteran.
The buff party is not about to stop… at contrary.
And about a tax node, I disagree.
After testing a lot the Ogryn, with the 2 first keystones, I can see that the middle keystone is not OP at all.
But first one… my god, melee ogryn is so strong (I won’t talk of the third, that permits you to kill alone a DH).
I don’t say I dislike it… but now we can take a demon host without problem. I believe we reached a point in the Darktide story.
or they balance the game to make it somewhat what it was before patch 13, or take this direction. So, a balanced game
or, and I guess it is what happen, they engage in a buff party.. buff this class, this weapon, this ability then rebuff other talents that had become too weak… buff buff buff buff buff…
The result will be surely an increase of the difficulty just on havoc, while ruining the game for all other players.
I guess they don’t need a 5k players population (number for steam). Maybe they need to reduce the number of servers… don’t know.
Youre proving my point. He needs to be attractive, because theyve made it so a tank is somewhat necessary, and I like this.
Zealot was the ‘plays itself’ class, now its Ogryn. Youve confirmed that. You’re agreeing with me and don’t even realise it. Thats the problem with DT.
All classes are viable. If you aren’t especially ‘skilled’, play Ogryn and stop pretending your a Zealot.
I’m really concerned not only does it need to be said, not only is it true, but people argueing otherwise don’t know they are.
I’m not saying its ridiculously tanky, I’m saying with the smallest skill most teams shouldn’t be wiping with a competant Ogryn. Sadly, 95% are heavy stubber/pickaxe ZEALOT-from-2-years-ago wannabes and solo and inevitably fail their team by not doing their teamjob. The best ones are the ones who complain of killstealing and take Specialist kills from Vet (which gives -6 second on our teamshield, apparently that also needs to be said).
Guy, I am not at home, but the difference between experience levels (true level) between Ogryn and Zealot is like 750 levels in favor of Zealot.
Really, you think I am an ogryn that want to hide behind a claim that my main is a zealot?
If I don’t play zealot, it is because obviously you have more power in the Ogryn.
I won’t say that zealot is bad. You can deal fair amount of damages. But zealot is no more the best melee class. Obviously that’s a problem for the melee class of the game.
Ogryn is overtuned right now. Its extremely easy to play, much moreso than the other classes, while having the most important role, damage sponge.
Ogryn has to be overtuned because the game needs a class meleeenjoyers can flock to and not have to be necessarily ‘skilled’ at the game to be able to play effectively, have fun, and feel stronk on higher difficulties, which people will play on regardless.
Is it overpowered? In relation to what? We have no other tanky classes, I have posted a few ideas for a 5th class to be a pseudo-‘tanky’ role.
You need the LEAST skill to play Ogryn effectively. You might not want to hear it, but with an adequate and suitable build, its a fact.
Yah that is part of the point. Utilizing and perfecting skill in part of the fun… if no skill is required… meh =/ Pre-patch Ogryn was more skill and satisfying when clutching. Now it’s more versatile and powerful but less satisfying in the long run.
Original post really just a way to test the water in simplest balance change.
Zealot still quite tanky probably has the edge with his invulnerability and if well kept up TDR talents surpasses.
Pure Tank / DPS / Support is not really a desirable thing DT were all bit of hybrid classes in DPS / CC some Support bits but mostly prioritize the threats, fill the gaps and help teammates. When one player gets so OP he doesn’t need team… that’s kind of a problem.
So, his opinion is that it is normal to see things unbalanced. And that a class can deal the more damages.
I wonder why players ask for a 5th archetype, and why Fatshark had to create 4 archetypes. With such reasoning, we need just one class.
I totally disagree. Ogryn should be a tank, so he should resist to damages more than other classes. He should be able to trade part of this resistance to get more DPS. But he should remain more resistant than other classes, while not dealing more damages than other classes.
Actually, Ogryn is far above the zealot about the melee. And that’s a problem, I am sorry.
With Ogryn you can go melee and ranged and deal an insane amount of DPS. Try a ranged zealot… you are far from that amount of DPS.
And a melee zealot… well, with heavy hitter you have really absolutely no difficulty to kill anything… including crushers. You can stagger easily etc.
Really few weapons can compete with the ones of the ogryn. I would say the relic blade. But relic blade requires that you manage the special and I also consider this weapon too strong, cause it staggers and deal impressive amount of damages at same time.
Seriously, I play the Ogryn with cleaver and grenade launcher. So easy to kill mauler, crushers or anything with it. Even with the middle keystone, and so even easier with the left keystone. And to kill crushers you have of course the pickaxe or the shovel or the bully, or… in fact you have all melee weapons.
At contrary, Zealot has always to take into consideration maniacs and carapace. With cleaver I can deal with horde, lesser enemies, elites, specials and carapace. With cleaver, a dreg rager is not a real threat. It becomes a threat if you have 15 against you and are alone (but still I killed several times alone this amount of dreg ragers without being killed, pretty easy with the stagger power of this weapon and Ogryn). Miss only monstrosities that you can cover with the ranged. You have plenty of choices.
This is really different if you pick a zealot.
