What stops you from playing Havoc without Arbites in your party?
Auric was only hard in the first few months of them adding it, when everyone was still getting used to new spawn rates of Shock Troop Gauntlet.
Ogryn post rework was about the same as Arbites in Havoc, but it didn’t make people quit the game over balance issues.
So really, what changed?
It’s amusing all the Havoc bugs where the game spawns 4 healing bosses randomly or rituals that activate in the next area that you haven’t reached yet didn’t make you quit, but Arbites is such a deal breaker to you.
Maybe the problem is not Arbites, but the fact is that they barely added anything worthwhile to auric board that switches things up and introduces new challenges. Maybe the problem is that content got easier is because you’re a skilled player who put a lot of time and effort into the game, clearing the same maps, fighting the same enemies with predictable patterns.
I was referring to player builds. Nothing really changed from Havoc 1.0 to Havoc 2.0, which is undeniable truth. Same weapons and abilities remained BIS, with bubble, gold toughness, DS being at the top.
Havoc spawns Twins, multiple bosses at the same time, all the hardest maps and conditions, no matter if it’s 25 or 40. You can play 25 Havoc and get pox gas gloriana with purple enemies, which is gonna be harder than Archivum Sycorax 40 with moebian 21st and orange. Back when Havoc 2.0 just released, all my hardest Havoc games were near 30s, because the player skill of random teammates is much lower in the lower bracket, but the difficulty is about the same as 40. I climbed to Havoc 40 multiple times by myself, so I know what I’m talking about. I’ve been Havoc 40 every week, except for the very first week when it was unplayable due to 3013 error.
Explain how that’s wrong. There’s barely ANY difference between lvl 30 and 40. The only “real” difficulty spike happens as you progress into 20s.
There’s a difference between “lying” (as you said) and having a different opinion on how Arbites compares to the VT DLC careers. What’s so controversial about my statement here, I’m not quite sure. All VT carers can be considered OP, same as Arbites. Base game careers take way more skill to perform same tasks.
This reads like a cop-out response cause it doesn’t make within the context of saying 1.0 was easier.
And for 2-3 just look at the numbers dude
Getting big “moving the goalposts” vibes here, you say “No basegame class comes even close” and now you say “base game careers take more skill to perform the same” which are in no way interchangeable statements to make.
Many of the people who oppose nerfs seem to be under the misconception that only weapons or classes should be nerfed. What’s important is that nerfs need to be implemented in parallel with reducing enemy spawn rates. The massive influx of Carapaces is clearly a problem, though this probably doesn’t even need explaining, but weapons without armor penetration take multiple times longer to kill Carapaces compared to certain other weapons. At the same time, they perform almost the same against other enemies like Maniacs or Unarmed. This is precisely what further reduces weapon diversity.
The video explains the mechanics of modifiers and missions, are you so mad to the point you can’t see the context of my post? For the THIRD TIME, I said that about PLAYER BUILDS. You’ve just decided on your own that my post has a different meaning, while I’m telling you straight what I meant by it. What a pointless dialogue.
If you open the patch notes with Havoc 2.0 modifiers, you’ll see my post there where I said day 1 that stuff like red modifier does nothing for the mode but promotes existing Havoc meta even further by excluding already off-meta high stagger weapons, since the best tools for red enemies are high damage single target weapons, which were also meta during Havoc 1.0.
But yeah, just call me a liar over something you either don’t understand, or refuse to understand, because it supports your own agenda here.
Same “core” people who got Veteran nerfed into their weakest state in the game, so that nowadays barely anyone can play them competently in Havoc, and still thinking Plasma Gun somehow outshines Bolter in a gamemode with multiple bosses every other room.
But now it’s very posh to say that “Veteran needs buffs”, so the crowd that called for Voice of Command nerfs grew very quite, while previously they had no problems with Infiltrate/Exe Stance being severely underused and underpowered.
I don’t think Veteran needs buffs. They perform more than adequately in Auric. Rather than nerfing VoC, I think Duty and Honour and Tactical Awareness should be nerfed. Of course, this could be reconsidered if the Gold Toughness mechanic itself were changed. Each of the three available abilities should have its own strengths; it doesn’t make sense for one to be so overpowered that it makes the others useless.
The usage rates among players are roughly:
Executioner’s Stance – 7%
VoC + Duty and Honour – 90%
Infiltrate – 3%
In Havoc, VoC + Duty and Honour rises to around 99.9%. It’s not necessary, nor even possible, for all three abilities to be at 50%, but these numbers clearly indicate that the three abilities are extremely unbalanced. While nerfing the second option, the first and third abilities also need to be reconsidered, and since there are still many underpowered nodes outside of the abilities, the entire tree needs an overhaul.
That shouldn’t NEED to happen for the Players to all be on an even playing field. Arbitrators shouldn’t NEED to be excluded from a Havoc Party for the sake of Balance, they should just be Balanced.
Walk me through this: The core players this comment is directed towards caused which nerfs? (Real, not a gotcha question).
I can agree with Power Sword and Survivalist nerfs. Hotshot on Helbore was a bug fix.
But I can’t remember any other nerfs to vet that have persisted into the current version of the game. I’m aware some others happened but am under the impression those were buffed later or just irrelevant. The rest of vet’s problems in my eyes are all from Power Creep with the rest of the classes and enemies being balanced around that.
Mister E’s addition to the powercreep discussion, on how “golden toughness” contributes to it, making it a necessity instead of option, because enemies’ damage output is so insanely increased to be able to cause some damage to players using it, that those who don’t can get insta-killed on a couple mistakes:
Also, I was surprised to learn that the “golden toughness” actually works like one extra toughness bar, it’s not just a buffer you get, you can regen it as normal tougness, until the effect lasts. So classes like Arbite and Ogryn who can regen toughness especially fast become almost invincible with those effects. I wonder if it’s a feature or bug? Without this (would it function as just a buffer, an extra temporary toughness on top of you main bar) it wouldn’t be so OP perhaps.
Not who you asked this to, but, Assail, Bolter (although current bolter is good, but it was crap for a while), shredder pistol (this stayed crapped since then, like assail.), Zarona Revolver.
Assail was literally so strong that it became a de facto third Weapon, and even at its weakest was still a VERY solid Blitz.
That was on Fatshark for hitting it with a sledgehammer instead of a scalpel, not those who expressed their thoughts that it could use tuning down. Bolter’s currently too strong once again, but I think that bringing its Ammo back down to 15/80 from 15/100 would be enough to finally settle it.
Shredder Autopistol was completely bonkers on release. Just like the Bolter, it’s Fatshark’s fault for hitting it that hard. No one asked for it to become THAT bad, only for it to be brought into line.
Wow. Just wow. Are we at such a Balancing crisis point that the ZARONA REVOLVER is now considered to be “underperforming”? Zarona Revolver was one of the faces of powercreep back in early 2024 and now it’s been out-powercrept. But no, we’re apparently just being “melodramatic” and “sensational” about how badly out of hand this is getting.
I’m glad most people in the comments are calling him out, just like in that one Reginald video where he fought everyone in his comments for a week or so he had to do an “apology” video with more moderate tone.
