Playable Female Ogryns

Stepping side from the current topic for a moment, I agree with this 110%. Too much information ruins the joy of discussing a topic.


I’m not going to argue that you’re wrong because you and I simply have different perspectives on the subject, but as I see it, Warhammer 40k began as a parody and has its roots in the anti-establishment sentiment that was prevalent at the time.

It mocks authority figures, often portraying them as tyrants and incompetent.

A return to traditional “for kingdom and country” ways of thinking, which people in real life were moving away from and which punk culture frequently criticized.

What better way to mock the monarchy and establishment than to place a rotten corpse on a gilded throne, enforcing an authoritarian and horrible society based on backwards religion that subjects men, women and children to the grinder of unending wars?

Warhammer lore, like all other pop culture, has evolved over the decades, from being a primarily white male culture to including more diverse representation to keep up with real-life topics.

As Garrosh Hellscream once said:


worldofwar-timeschange

This might be a case when the creator f-ks up royally and just doesn’t hit the mark.

It parodies authority figures alright, but in a setting where faith does actually work to stop and destory the literal demons, and where the corpse king is the only light shining in the darkness guiding ships to their destination fighting never ending wars against horrors unimaginable, it’s easy to see what the imperium of man does as necessity.

Kinda Starship troopers movie adaptation comes to mind, where the creator thought putting officers in third reich uniforms would make them the bad guys, while actually building an incredibly meritocratic paradise. It even whiffed on the “propaganda” front so much it isn’t even funny, showing actual debates on television, leaders stepping down after mistakes, and actual reporting on the horrifying losses they made during the first attack.


Warhammer lore has seen numerous changes and evolutions over the years.

The world or WH40k did not begin with notable writers such as Dan Abnett.

There are many silly and campy elements in Warhammer, from Noise Marines to how ridiculous the entire structure is.
Religious satire, environmental issues, authority, humanity being their own worst enemy, etc.

While certain writers make the world of 40k, violent and brutal, the world is also campy, hilarious, and very homoerotical (nothing wrong with that), similar to He-Man, Biker Mice from Mars, KIZZ, Manowar, Action Man, Dino Wars, WWE/WWF/WCW/NWA from my childhood.

Warhammer is a caricature of traditional, especially British, lifestyles, as well as a parody of itself.

In its most basic version, it portrays huge sweaty muscular guys beating up other big sweaty muscular guys.

The “good” big sweaty muscular guys all follow a even bigger muscular sweating guy with long flowing “Maybe it’s Maybelline” hair, clad in a big golden armor who is now seated as a corpse on a golden throne, with some blood and guts added in to divert attention away from the suggestive themes.

I love it!

Orks! Orks! Orks!

As I have said elsewhere, it was loved by everybody of every creed as it was, now everyone of every creed has criticised the change.

Everyone understood the lore and everyone was fine with it, except for those that want to make everything about them.

As is the lore with female Ogryn’s, there is no need to include in the game, it’s just not nessecary.

My understanding is that the Ogryns in Darktide, specifically, are vat-grown, so are neither male nor female. They’re just…'Tide Ogryns. I think they are their own specific type of Ogryn and have their own lore. At least that was how it was explained to me.


Thank you for the insight! :pray:



Credit is scorp106 on Deviantart.

I’m not sure - I’m under the impression that there is a very vocal group of anti-woke-YouTubers who claim everyone is against this while some of them seem to think custodes are an elite chapter of space marines showing they have no clue of the lore themselves.
Most who are actually invested in the hobby don’t seem to care a lot and are mostly surprised that this wasn’t flanked by female custodian models.

Why would vat grown (ab)humans be genderless?

This exactly! Just look at the evolution of necrons - transforming from incomprehensible lovecraftian horrors into petty arrogant pharaonic dynasties. Rival Dorn Main Battle tanks that always have been the backbone of guard armoured formations despite never have been mentioned alongside leman russes. Or T’au who transformed from the only good guys into psionicly enslaved drones. All of these are more relevant changes then turning the custodes from a brotherhood into a fellowship without changing anything else.

Absolutely - awesome movie but it does make fascism look sexy doesn’t it?

But I don’t see that as a problem because it’s still not portrayed as good. And not all the evil in the Imperium is justified. In many novels authorities maltreat their subjects for selfish reasons rather then the good of the Imperium - often leading to the loss of whole planets. So some of it’s original spirit is still intact.

I guess you’re spot on here - it seems GW lost a law suit against a third party miniature seller because they offered something that existed in universe (on pictures and stories) but not as model by GW. So the judge argued they wouldn’t cost GW any profits as they offered something demanded that GW simply didn’t offer. And since then GW seems to prohibit portrayal of stuff in the franchise for which they don’t offer a model (yet).

So when GW decides to create a Female Ogryn model one fine day it is very like that male Ogryn “never have been very protective of them since first they were encountered” :wink:

That’s a question you’d need to ask the lore writers!

Wait till youtube finds out Tidegryns are actually non-binary persons and prefer the pronoun “they” :rofl:

This explains a lot actually!

We’ve noted that the Ogryns in 'tide are way smarter than many canonical depictions of Ogryns, naturally if you’re going to the trouble of vat-growing laborers, you’ll want them to be smarter than the ‘usual’ Ogryn level of intelligence.

See I’d be behind that explenation, but I’d like to see the source of that info before I can beleive it.

Then you missed the point entirely.

… that’s Aqshy dude, she got a new UN after she stopped working at Fatshark. She’s a pretty reliable source.

not to mention abhumans beign a stand ins for people either with disabilities or people often shamed or looked down upon as either burdens or freaks.

When time and time again their diffrences have made things both in warhammer and our world better in their own ways.

yet the majority are still viewed as problem because they’re differences upset thin skinned nobles who want their sanitised little lifestyle with no such thing as change.

I’m not unaware of this, and I agree it’s pretty reliable.
But sourcing really seals the deal.

So yes I should have worded that better. “I’d like to see the source of that information.” is what I should have said.

And that is not true, lots of people have been against it. GW went and blocked 1000’s of 40k fans, including females, because they spoke up about it.

Easy to change the perception of things when you are blocking everyone who disagrees with you.

I mean look at this bigoted racist misogynist, because anyone who disagrees with the change is labelled as such.

If GW, wanted to get females playing 40k, DT, and all other GW products, just do a show with Cavill at the forefront. Would be one of the biggest hits ever for 40k…

If FatShark got Henry Cavill to play DT on the new update and new levels, DT numbers, I would 100% bet on similar reaction to the success of the Cyberpunk anime and what it did for 2077.

Darktide player numbers will shoot through the roof and won’t be pushed away buy a hateful and spiteful crafting system. As that would be gone.

sociatal standerds change accross the imperium, what flies on one planet may not in another.
The moebian domain shall be no differant.

And at the end of the day bodies are needed for the grinder, so unless those females hold massive political power… the tithes shall be met.

Why does that look like a Dynasty Warriors Game box cover art? :joy:
I look at this and all I can think of is “OH nooo. It’s Lubuuu! He has come to destroy us!”



You’re entirely right, they don’t hit the mark at all (or never even tried to hit it and third parties are trying to justify them after the fact).
It’s because as always, these people want to have their cake and eat it, too.

You need good storywriting to actually capture some audience, so you bring out the Greek Tragedy basics of Protagonist, Antagonist, multi-chapter story arc, build-up, highlight, all the other story-telling conventions related to old virtues like honor, honesty, fighting wickedness, etc.
Absurdist theatre has tried to subvert this for decades… Nobody really goes to watch absurdist theatre. That tells you all you need to know really.

On the other hand, they need to signal their virtues on “current thing”, so you add “pro-x” or “anti-y” sentiment last minute. Sort of like a chef adding some mustard into his spicy chilli soup without thinking about the consequences. And that then produces the schizophrenic mess that is modern “story-telling”.

Was the culture when Warhammer was created about anti-authoritarianism? Well, let’s tell a space war story (because everybody loves space and loves war) while also preaching that “war is le bad” and “authoritarian rulers le evil” angle. But at the same time still glorify the Space Emperor and Space Swat in Armor, because psychology dictates you need to be rooting for someone in your story (or engagement dies off). Of course they get the hero role. But that’s where the conflict between ideology and story-telling comes in. You need to tell the compelling story, but the current “thing” is anti-thetical to those principles.

Now, the current thing is changing nowadays ever faster and faster. A new parade. A new circus. A new stick to beat the naughty boys with, who don’t go along. A lot of people will unironically take all of that seriously, actively destroy entire careers and lives over it, including their own. Read the current thing into stories and demand it be present in their media. It’s the silly thing to do.
In 10 years time when there is a new current thing, it will be all but forgotten. Everyone who now believes “their struggle of the current thing matters” will be left behind, feeling empty, used and sold out. Like a guardsman on Tertium when he realizes, the Sisters of Battle are not coming to save him from his demons.

Now THAT is brutal. And technically speaking worth it’s own story.
But that’s a dose of reality you won’t find in any show, not even a R18 rated one. Because it would expose the utilitarian mindset that is truly at the core of what you just critisized. Yes, the hypocrisy and the lack of faithfulness is an expression of the creators utilitarian mindset. They retroactively try to fit the new thing into the old thing, because it’s the easiest way to sustain product while becoming modern for the “modern audience”.
It’s not about “the thing”. It never was about the thing. They are in fact above “the thing”, because they think further than most people do. It’s about the circus itself for circus sake. And the wandering circus happens to change location every so often. So you give it a new window dressing to fit the new location. End of story.

TL;DR - WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR YOU?
Simple. Play the game how those who set the game up play it. Stop getting emotionally invested and vulnerable in these matters. Stop reading too much into non-sensical (there I said it!) fantasy. If the creators aren’t thinking that deeply about it or valuing it, why should you?! If their stories contradict themselves, why should you try to fix it? Just don’t. They want to bury their product? Well, give em a shovel and move on.
Nothing is easier to replace than Entertainment. Amusement is easy to generate, you can do it yourself in an empty room. It is the most superfluous of all industries.

I plan on doing the same if the Warhammer ride gets too wild or “anti-me” as a “normal person”. I can if I want to put Gaming entirely down tomorrow. I don’t care. I come and go where I please.
This is the mindset you also need, to make yourself powerful. And to also stand above this.

So accept the new change or tell them to go kick rocks. In the end, this is what it will come down to.