Club is still max 3 enemies on heavy hit though, don’t let stagger cleave fool you. No damage = no bleed unless its from your dash. The club is carried by the dash atm, I’ve ran tons of pure heavy trees with Mk1 but the current thunderous + skullcrusher bleed dash Mk3 basher build just takes a dump on them. If you have soften em up you will never notice the lack of haymaker, soft elites die so fast to the b a t t e r y. The only reason I run heavy tree is for dominate and 10% attack speed. Its total melee damage is near an Eviscerator.
But yeah there are still a bunch of funneling towards heavy loadouts otherwise. I really wish they would completely reverse the Brunt Pride’s light combo. It would actually be so interesting to use.
I play auric maelstrom mostly, and it’s literally all about killing every human sized enemy with 2 heavy hits, farming toughnes with heavy hits, controlling crushers with heavy hits, soloing bosses by stacking bleed and farming toughness well again with heavies. There are just sometimes push attack for hordes, or light-heavy loop with MKI club but that its for melee.
With MKV shovel it’s a heavy spam or sometimes light-heavy.
For shield it’s just more pushes for aggro and farming cd reduction. And sometimes blocking shots to force them agro, but overall you can simply push through the level spaming taunt.
Ogryn melee lacks of indentity, you kinda just pick weapon skin and use it in the same way - by spaming heavies.
Every his aspect comes from heavies - control, dot status, damage, toughness regen. Just delete lights than, lol. Having high damage per hit =/= utilizing 1 attack. Things like Thrust make sense - cause there is a trade. Fast high damage attacks that bring absolutely everything to the table - stupid, it asks nothing from player, there is no skill involved, you don’t need to think in which situation you need use this, and for what situation other thing fits better.
Thank god it’s not like that currently.
And it also become boring 1 button gaming with no thinking involved.
well i dont know what your strategy was for beating hardmode, mine was keeping Rinda glued to me, the riffraff busy, so the others could dish out the damage to the other boss respectively.
got a video of that as well, turned out it worked.
so yeah, i was agreeing on the shield part. that other “thing” in your spare hand though, well i said my piece already.
as for the damage aspect, going full heavy, bleed and the whole shebang, i´m constantly behind a bull butcher 3 run but not that far given the different playstyle.
so the shield can deal damage, its just boring to watch and apply.
and for the “defensive” aspect, i hope you don´t mean go full turtle mode, for the teams sake.
again, plenty if videos i keep to rewatch and learn, and playing aggressively with my shield has its merit.
it could be visually more pleasing though and crowd control tagged to the heavy attack while the club gets a little time to shine with more damage swapped over to it.
not add to the shields output, but swap certain attributes so light attacks wouldnt be that obsolete.
in one part i disagree, right now the game is at a state were “if i want to get it done right, i do it myself” triumphs over teamplay given the lets say “less than optimal performance” of random teammates.
and lets be honest, the luxury of a premade 24 hours at your disposal isnt something most of us have .
i´m talking visually pleasing effects, same as the 300 reference. beat a pox on its head, have it shoved into its ribcage for example, stuff like that.
in hindsight i would have opted for an i9 and went all in to get 100 ragdolls present at 144 fps, next rig will be prepared better.
i don´t want it all, i want it all to be presented like a dumptruck hits a little critter, not swinging through the air left and right like i was swatting flies.
That’s a current direction of the game balance i don’t like.
A lot of weapons become too homogeneous because game shifted towards 4 solo players in team, rather than coop. Just like it was in V2.
You can take whatever you want and can deal with any types of enemies with somewhat efficiency. There still some things different classes can do better, but balance was moved hard from specialization. Yeah, just bring rend for every weapon already, will be very smart deccision (no).
But there is another problem - noone will discuss their loadouts when its 1 minute timer at pre-mission screen you have no control over. Jumped on a mission it’s 10 sec before mission starts “hi guys i’m going for control bui… nevermind”
thats why i don´t bother anymore checking for others´ loadout.
those who´re competent with their equipment contribute to a possitive outcome, those who aren´t couldn´t be helped either way.
so i rather go for the gear i´m most efficient with and brace for a rough landing
[quote=“weeping.moon, post:22, topic:91316”]overall you can simply push through the level spaming taunt.
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I had the unfortunate pleasure to play with Ogryns that play like that. Absolute catastrophe. Please, don’t do that.
No, light attacks serve a purpose and help to dispatch the horde quicker. Yes, when you play a Scab Melee Only Maelstrom then you will just swing heavy attacks. But if you play other mission types with more horde, then using light attacks when you do not need the heavy attack toughness regen is preferable and kills more enemies.
As I said, not how i play the class.
Again, not how this game works. Every weapon in this game falls into 2 general attributes. The idea seems to be to have a give and take. Where you can at most have medicore “jack of all trades” weapons. But you certainly won’t get a shield paired with a power sword. That is the “game” aspect of the… game.
I have no idea whatever gave you that idea. Game mechanic wise the Shield is the only weapon that allows you to block ranged attacks natively. The only other weapon in the game that does that is the Force Swords, provided you sacrifice a Blessing slot for that ability.
The shield provides defense in a big stamina pool and the ability to block and crowd control the enemy. That is what it is there for. It is its two attributes. Defense and Crowd Control. And yes, in reality nothing would stop you from bringing a Thunderhammer as an Ogryn. You could very much one hand carry them with a shield.
The reason it will never happen is: This is a game.
And which attributes would you swap? Any change in the attributes robs it of its crowd control status and either pushes it into a Cleaving Strike or Strike Down territory. There has to be a downside to it.
Reducing it’s “defensive” ability, also means it essentially becomes a Club. You can wield a club if you want that. You’ll be able to block just as effectively, but have lost the ability to block ranged. It even comes with 3 more stamina.
Go to the official Discord. There are LFG channels, where you can state your intention. Usually you get reliable people you can coordinate with.
The more precise your request, the more likely you’ll get like minded individuals.
Not everyone shares your penchant for 300. It is probably one of the best comic book adaptions we ever got, with some shots being 1 to 1 from the page, but there-in already lies the problem. Its a comic book adaption and the fact that Zack Synder did it, should tell you all you need to know about the realism and accuracy.
The Ogryn has to be balanced against the other Operatives. It can’t be the oviparous Woolmilkpig.
lots and lots of people doing their “plonk” and call it a day instead of getting close to the stuff that tries to kill us while shortly blocking their fire thus forcing them into melee mode given the proper talent spec.
getting close and personal with the shield is fun to do ( even if its just one heavy after the other with the occasional pushback ) usually shield users though don´t get into the thick of it and rather block a hallway or similar stalemate.
stamina pool isnt there to soak up every volley they throw at you, stamina lets you deal with it briefly while getting in their faces and clubber them to death.
majority of bleed and damage to club while stagger and knockback to shield, doesn´t sound that far fetched now, does it ?
charging your heavy to get them on their butts could be complemented with dealing light attacks to get the damage in while they are down, thus give the club some reason to be there after all.
if you dont like scantly clad greeks i dont blame you, was the first example that came to mind.
FINE, think doom glory kills, better ?
besides:
“ogryn"realism” coughcough
at this point i dont know how else to phrase my stuff when arguing about visually enhanced ways to see your ogryn in action.
again, no one touches damage numbers or anything just add oomph to a 100kg blade hitting a 50kg zombie.
maybe add more animations on how enemies turn into gore, get sliced, stabbed, crushed, go nuts.
never was a fan of black desert as a game but those combos looked really beefy compared to the mind numbing striking through air other games of that genre had. only game prior was age of conan that went halfway with the combo and finisher system.
didn´t change any of them numbers popping up but made for a much more fun experience in my opinion.
Depends on the team, if it’s somewhat compitent than it’s yolo maelstrom.
It’s a miniscuale role you can ignore even. It would be a purpose if you barely can clear hordes with heavy or can’t farm toughness with heavy. Current ratio is like 90/10 for heavy/light. Again, there is no skill involved when you can kill, control, applying status, kill bosses and farm toughness just by spamming 1 attack and rarely incorporate light or push-attack in your chain. It feels like cookie clicker, absolutely dumb and boring.
Question: do you make those talents multi-function (e.g. 1 talent providing both sharp weapons do X and blunt weapons do Y), or do you give them separate talents? For the most part, you will only reasonably be using one effect during a game (unless you’re doing some Kickback/Rumbler melee/Bull Butcher weapon swap shenanigans) and in terms of generally avoiding tedium, having to alter my build if I want to swap out a cleaver to a club would be annoying
Also there’s a mod, I don’t have it but I plan to get it, that allows you to swap say, grenade types, without unselecting everything under it. I think you just have to have it valid when it’s finalized. (anyone have the name handy?)
For me, it’s primarily about the ability to just swap my weapon on my go-to build and being ready to play, which is something I do frequently on my Zealot.
If weapon-specific talents were in separate parts of the tree, having them as separate talents would be fine since they’d probably require very different builds. If they existed at the same branch e.g.
o
/ \
o o
then it’d be pointless to have separate talents IMO since you have to choose left or right regardless.
And i explicitly replied, in the same post, to someone else about how i don’t just do “one thing”. You created a strawman insinuate that I would be one of those people, despite me already addressing the fact that i don’t do the minimal necessary thing.
That is how it already works. You have the heavy shield slam with a lot of stagger and a quick melee attack allowing you to wail on people for damage. Which is precisely why i mentioned doing a combination of light and heavy attacks, in combination with pushes and blocks, in order to maximize my combat.
I have no issue with scantly clad dudes. I have issue with the unrealistic depiction of spear and shield formation fighting. Or the fact that it wasn’t just 300 mooks fighting at that spot. It was 2 armies headed by an elite contingent of 300 spartans.
I am getting more and more the impression that you are simply playing the wrong game.
Quote mining is unbecoming. Especially considering that you are the one that brought 300 into the discussion as an example of what you want the Ogryn Shield and Maul to be.
To which i replied that 300 is not realistic or an accurate portraly of what actually happened. And we know this because we have actual written accounts of what happened, and how people fight in a phalanx. And that is not to spread out like idiots among the enemy, when you don’t even wear armor.
So yes, using 300 as example of what fighting with a shield should look like is just making a mockery of the situation.
I am guessing you are using a 3rd Person mod then? For someone that plays in first person the enemies sufficiently rag doll to give the impression of “a dump truck hitting a little critter”.
Having worked with metals i can tell you even the obscenely thick Ogryn knives likely don’t weigh more than 1kg, 2 at most.
Again, from first person view the number of animations is more that suffcient. If you want a 3rd Person Action Brawler, i suggest playing games that provide that.
I already said that in my initial reply and i also said that for expediency reason of dispatching the enemy using light attacks is advisable. As is building stagger depending debuffs via Pushes, as well as Taunting the enemies to focus on you and provide the “tank” role.
I already said that you can just single button smash through the game, but in my experience that results in a poorly played Ogryn, instead of a neigh indistructable monster as it should be.
And yet i see a lot of Ogryns fail doing just that, because all they do is spam 1 attack and somehow expect it to work. Melee in this game doesn’t work like that on Auric. You need to move and crowd control in order to minimize taking damage and distribute debuffs. Ideally also to protect the little ones via the push taunt.
and how is this working in terms of making the shield attack pattern less monotonous,when you could simply skip light attacks all together and still net roughly the same damage amount at the end?
name of the thread was “random ideas”, you dont like em, fine.
just foot-stomping NO at every suggestion is tiresome to read, so skipping some stuff shouldnt come as a surprise.
dont understand the fixation with “realism” in this particular setting, personally i find reality boring enough with fictional environments offering way broader means of visual depiction, but thats just me.
i’m still on my way down the warhammer rabbit hole,though i doubt “toughness” and soaking up dozens of projectiles/lasgun rays(?) would fit well with realism.
so yeah, i take an enjoyable “mockery” of an ogryn sized combatant any time over a historical accurate snoozefest where usually bodies simply collapse when stabbed.
dont see any artistic value in that.
you’re sure you aint missing a decimal at the ogryn blade weight? seen huge stuff at 15kg, smelt that down i doubt it’d suffice to cast what the big boys are weilding.
anyways, feel free to disagree, i toss my 2 cents at what i’d like to see in future ogryn weaponry.
alas, despite being a boring day without time to play, the irony of repeating myself in a thread finding ways around repetition isnt lost on me
And i already said that this is not enough. This is a miniscuale role considering how much heavies provides.
It’s basicaly how it works with MK1 and MK5, lol. What, should i make a fullrun video or something?
No you don’t. Cause heavies kills all human sized elites in 2 hits and generates shittones of toughness per hit.
Do you even play other classes? Cause their melee somewhat more diverse (even there are some problems too). Have you even played V2? Cause combat and especially current ogryn playstyle is a downgrade in comaprison with V2, in some aspects atleast, especially in defensive
Ok bro keep pretending ogryn melee isn’t braindead, meanwhile ogryn melee is equivalent of vet plasma. I have nothing more to say to you if you think ogryn melee is very interesting, diverse, takes any skill and a lot of buttons to push, or there is some kind of decision making envolved.
Some things should be - like you can agro with push that any weapon have for example. But some things should be absolutely specialized in something.
Not rly, you already doing multiple things - toughness farm, rend, bleed, stagger, aggro. Game just lacks effects that ask from a player to perform some chain of actions to activate them or to track its status and that work on “if - than” rule in a bit more complex way.
Well that’s a fundamental thing i desagree on (and i don’t think it’s a problem cause loadouts anyway). When every weapon can do anything it starts feeling like you are playing with reskins. And like it’s not a coop game, but 4 solo players in one run.
The current situation is when there is a question “what should we do to make this weapon viable” devs just sayin “give it rend”. It removes weapon indentity and in some way inflates ammount of content.
I should clarify: in response to your suggestion of weapon-specific benefits (sharp weapons do bleed, blunt weapons do something else), what I mean is are you suggesting that you apply those mutually exclusive benefits to a single talent, or separate them? I’m not talking about any additional benefits from other sources
If you think about Shocktrooper as an existing example, swapping out your weapon can make that talent completely non-functional if you choose a non-Las weapon - kind of annoying. If you were to add another weapon-specific bonus (let’s say Autoguns get +Cleave), would you
add it to Shocktrooper
put it adjacent to Shocktrooper
put it just about anywhere else on the tree
To me, that second option doesn’t make any sense. I can never benefit from both the Las and Autogun benefits simultaneously, so it’s not as if I’m getting 2 benefits in-game for the price of 1.
I’m just getting a small convenience that the same build is more broadly applicable. Having 2 near-identical builds, where the only difference is whether I choose Shocktrooper Las or Shocktrooper Autogun would annoy me I have near-identical builds tailored for weapons already, but they are making intentional choices. Swapping between 2 adjacent talents, where only 1 is guaranteed to function at a time, is not an intentional choice, it’s just a nuisance.
I have near-identical builds tailored for weapons already, but they are making intentional choices. Swapping between 2 adjacent talents, where only 1 is guaranteed to function at a time, is not an intentional choice, it’s just a nuisance.