You know that ratsknitt is infantry as well?
Or Bodvarr, Naglfar 1st phase or skarrik are armoured…
Having him be berserker is fine. Actually changes up a bid as other builds are good vs him.
You could reduce his HP a bid but changing armor type isnt a solution imo.
Id rather have a bid more space in 3rd phase kiting him and not been thrown around by him.
Sorry man, are you talking with me? Because I don’t see the notification but your post follows mine (and original poster isn’t quoted)… sometimes this forum is a little big bugged.
Anyway I still reply, just in case XD
I know that there are bosses that aren’t monster tier but, as said in the other thread, the problem is the berserker type in particular… because it’s an armor tier meant on purpose to be the enemy of those careers/weapons that fulfill the bosses/elites killer.
Wich is fine if it’s “put” on Monks and Berserker (chaos guys), enemies meant to give importance to shotguns and to slow down those careers… but if you put it on a Lord, you are stealing bosses killer careers’ role.
If I invest “points” (and give up other advantages) to focus on bosses… I should be able to deal with every boss. Otherwise my build works around the RNG and I lose my job.
It’s like I played as shielded IB and suddenly enemies could become immune to stagger.
Did I reply to your post instead of the thread? If yes sorry but it doesnt show like that for me.
I was referring to OP here.
The boss is actually the best one they’ve made, if a little challenging at the end.
My best friend and I beat him first try on champion.
I don’t get why bringing up different armor types makes sense when those are completely logical choices though? The guys in armor have armored, the guy who is just infantry has infantry. That makes sense. The sorcerer (about as far from a deranged melee fighter as it gets) having berserker is just a weird arbitrary choice that there’s absolutely no way you could figure out without testing out of game or spending hours testing all the different power vs combos.
It’s just inconsistent and makes some careers terrible through nothing but RNG in QP.
3rd phase being silly is at least something I’m glad everyone seems to agree on though lol, not sure anyone likes being turned into a pinball or unable to even kite because of how many adds there are.
These words are so precious… You should open a your thread and let Fatshark to read this. @LordGiggles seriously, think about it.
Armored enemies are armour tier and, if I want to focus myself on armored guys, I know what build I have to choose.
What is the next move? Armored monks because it’s too easy that a shotgun can deal with every berserker type?
Sadly there are many players happy about a berserker Lord only because they are happy that he can’t be killed in one second… but there are other ways to make a boss tougher.
Yeah but why choose worse ways when you have already very good solution that gives more diversity.
The issue is another one as well. Had FS chosen ANY other way to make a tougher Lord people would still complain. This is not about the way the boss has been made tougher (which is a good and elegant solution and fits with Nurgloths Berserker style attacks in phase 3). This is about some people not liking the actual challenge of phase 3.
I actually feel like more of the problem is that this flying fyck not staggerable. Armour type is stupid workaround, but not unmanagable.
We could also divide the armored enemies (and relative property vs armours) in armour A and armour B… just to increase the diversity. Think about the variety and the fantastic RNG! What properties should I take? Will I fight armours A or armours B?
Whats that argument?
Your “insert op boss killer here” class has power vs x so you can kill lord/monster/boss easier?
Who in their right mind actually runs properties vs monsters/lords/bosses? Outside shade with crit power maybe.
Yes nurgloth needs some tweaking but changing him from berserker to monster isnt the right way. He is fine as berserker. Just need to learn how to beat lords/monsters without a class that makes them even more irrelevant.
Nurgloth is already almost perfectly balanced. Just cut a little back on the enemies and he’s golden.
Either way, the fact that he’s so tough and durable can actually be defended by lore: when fighting him, he calls himself a “master of demons”.
He’s obviously been juiced up more than a little, and is seemingly more powerful than Barejockey Housecrash. His spells of enchantment and blessings from Nurgle have made his skin tough and resilient through countless infections and pus-buboes. If he’s absorbed some power (or maybe a whole demon) then that adds even more to his own power, though how he is able to hold on to so much power is a bigger question.
we have a strange situation. The other Lords (Rasknitt apart) can still be oneshotted. Nurgloth is greatly tougher (and he does the biggest damage too). You might like it, but it’s not a good balance;
the point it’s not who uses monster property (none uses it, and you can be sure: none will use berserker too… even after this Lord). But monster tier (like armour tier, the other popular tier between bosses) receives a good damage from those weapons used by those careers meant to deal with bosses.
If you use berserker type you are stealing those careers’ niche… because berkserker tier is meant to be resistant to aforementioned careers.
Like other users say, if I “waste” my resources to perform vs one category of enemies (infantry, specials, elites, bosses) I must be good vs the entire category… otherwise it would be just RNG. Will I be so lucky to meet the right enemy into the right category?
If I play as Lonbow WS I know that I’m specialized in specials, I can deal with every special and I will meet these specials… Nurgloth’s situation, taking it to the extreme, it’s like if a special could become immune to arrows;
You would have to learn how to beat a Lord (and not only Nurgloth) even if Fatshark tuned down certain careers… there isn’t no need to make it a question of RNG making a (one only) boss tremendously resistant (and strong).
I’m wrong or you said, into another thread, you beat him at Champion? There isn’t nothing wriong, but I’m talking about Cataclysm.
Apart this, it’s important to divide lore from gameplay.
Yes, I did say we beat him on champion. But here’s the thing; you can’t universally balance a boss around the hardest difficulty. The hardest difficulty has to be separated from the lower difficulties, either in mechanics, powers or otherwise, hence why it’s the hardest.
Every difficulty needs their own balance. I must confess that I skimmed through this thread so I don’t know if this has already been stated before though, but there it is.
Well, yes, we could say every difficulty has its balance… but they must have an internal balance too. Even at the hardest difficulty we can’t have one Lord that overshadows in every aspect the other ones… or at least this is my opinion.
In isolation Nurgloth only has a small tweak to his final 1/3 phase to make him more palatable and playable and less RNG wipes for those players here.
I played today however (Legend) Into the Nest followed by Enchanters Lair and the difference in Lord challenge was ridiculous.
I Agree with @astroVB that there need to be some parity across the Lords so that one isn’t completely laughable with the other RNG infurating. I am NOT advocating slapping Nurgloth with a Nerf Bat into the latrine, rather tweak him a little easier while making other lords a little harder.
Remember we’re relatively high level players here, who have access to far more data and build detail than the vast majority of players. If there isn’t at least some kind of fairly level playing field then Enchanters Lair will just be Skippergate 2.0. It’s long enough as it is without being a 70% chance of wipe at the end (In PUG at least).
And its good that other bosses can be oneshooted? Oo
Thats one of the worst things with the balance. On the one hand it makes the thing thats supposed to be the annoying big guy (for monsters) or the final battle against the evil mastermind behind the enemy plans (for lords) irrelevant. And on the other hand for the gameplay aspect it results in people not learning how to properly deal with those threats if they cant oneshot it.
A character with a niche as little as “boss killer” is an irrelevant character. How many bosses do you get a run at max?
The max would probably be skitter gate. Get a boss early (pre norsca), get gatekeeper naglfar, get a second boss in the village after naglfar and ratsknitt+deathrattler. Thats the best case.
Worst case would be 0 bosses.
Lets average it out through all maps at 1 boss. So you pick a character for one situation (lets be generous again and say he needs 30 seconds to kill the boss) in a 20 minute run. How useless that would feel. The so called boss killers have a niche bigger than that else they wouldnt be useful or wouldnt be played.
There is no career/build with the sole niche “boss killer”. There are a few characters that can also do this tiny niche.
And to repeat myself. There are better ways to bring nurgloth in line.
Reduce his HP (mostly relevant for cata).
Get rid of his stupid knockback in phase 3 cause that part is just unfair. When you block and dodge him and he hits your block sending you straight on the edge of the arena causing him to spawn the circles that will most likely hit you after you just flew there.
Maybe even increase the timer at which adds spawn and make it so you cant just luck out in what adds spawn. (aka one run you just get irrelevant shieldy bois and the other you get cw)
Wait, this would need a larger speech… and a little bit off topic.
It’s important divide bosses from Lords… because Lords are “the final event” of their maps and their battles are less RNG (no sudden hordes, specials, etc etc).
Bosses, instead, can spawn in tight places between specials and other stuff… so they are another speech.
Apart this, that as said it has been just a little off topic, let’s return on the main argument.
I never said that it’s good. I simply said that the difference between Nurgloth and the other Lords is incredibly abysmal.
Therefore someone could say “Nerf Nurgloth”, someone else “Buff the other Lords” or… why not both?
But at this point it’s important to notice another thing. Lords maps aren’t “special maps” like FoW… they are simple QP maps. So, I can understand if some players hate this, but a Lord map must be hard as any other “normal” map. This is my vision.
This is right: bosses killer, normally, it’s not the entire niche… in fact I never said that the entire career becomes useless. But you are still stealing (for the previous reasons, without repeating myself) a good part of the niche. I still find it pretty unfair.
But there is more… berserker can act is a strange way. It has an innatural resistence to some weapons for no reasons. Imho too much RNG, because it can cut off (as written in the original post) certain builds.
I guess we just disagree… because sure, Nurgloth’s mechanics should be reworked (third phase can give some unfair damage), but for the reasons already written I think that change the berserker tier should be the first step.
One consideration I’d like to add, is that one thing is having a tough boss after a 12 min map, an other is having it at the end of a 22+ one…
That being said, I too agree that having him being berserker type doesn’t really make sense, and that designing the game around 2 careers isn’t the best choice.