Everyone should keep in mind that all the other lords in this game are extremely weak, weaker than any other end event of any other map. Skarrik can literally be killed by a BH before he even stands up in Legend with just one cheeky coc pot, Bodvarr gets bullied around by ults and bombs, and Burblespue doesn’t deal much damage and is hardly threatening. Rasknitt is much more on par, but I’d say he’s more annoying and tedious than anything else.
I would but I feel like we’ve already got so many threads on the topic that FS would be keeping up to date with stuff anyway lol.
This is absolutely the main issue. Him being challenging is fine, but him being challenging because of things you can only find out of game and make absolutely no sense in game is less so. VT already has an issue with not giving players enough info, having builds straight up not work because of that is really not what we need.
He needs other tweaks making phase 3 less of an unfun fight, but the berserker armor thing is just lazy and considering how hard he is, I can’t see legend pubs (or below) who are just grinding for power or reds wanting to waste so much time on a boss that pretty much guarantees they’ll lose a book. He’s also just kind of frustrating in pubs sometimes, frankly. Clutching that fight or even just rezzing your team without invis is painful bordering on impossible depending on the phase and what adds were spawned.
I think everyone agrees that skarrik should be able to actually fight before he gets deleted by other classes, but making nurgloth so much harder than everything else in the game and resistant to normal boss killers doesn’t actually improve the other bosses at all. They still just instadie vs those careers. Keeping nurgloth in line with other bosses while reworking BH (and whoever else is being discussed) creates none of those issues.
Ignoring rasknitt, who manages to get both the “dies too quickly” thing with his pimped out rat ogre, and the “tedious fight that you can’t just nuke” thing with his teleporting around.
Imo berserker armor class needs to be removed.
Even with the new lord, there’s still not enough berserker enemies to even bother having it as a functional trait for QuickPlay matches.
Now, if Fatshark added an inventory box at the start of each mission like in V1, then players could quickly choose gear appropriate for each map. Would definitely be helpful for Lair of the Enchanter so you could switch to your berserker setup that’s useless in 99% of the game’s content.
Offtopic but I wanted to add one thing.
Yes final events should be hard. There is nothing as lame as completing a whole map with ups and downs and the ngetting to the final event just to breaze through it in autopilot. That counts for lord maps just the same as for non-lord maps.
This boss needs have the that fly swarms nerfed. Less frequent or same frequency but one at a time or no player tracking.
I don’t really disagree with this in principle, especially for quickplay. It’s bad if there is a difficulty spike when a player just wants to farm chests, or is already playing at the highest difficulty he can handle at that time. That leads to suicides at the start of the map or just plain frustration at the wipe at the end of the map.
However, I absolutely loved how brutal that last fight was. I know as Cata players we’re absolutely a minority, and I understand the game can’t be balanced on us. But it was just so much fun to be challenged like that! I’d be really sad if Nurgloth was nerfed. That would maybe make the game better for the more casual and newer players, but it would make take something away for players like us as well.
I’d want to see a solution to that problem where all player types can be happy. One idea could be to remove the map from the quickplay rotation (I suggested that before), but that is just restricting content. I thought some more about it, and my ideal solution would be to nerf Nurgloth down to the level of other Lords for Legend and lower ONLY, and leave him as crazy out of whack as he currently is in Cataclysm. Everybody happy, right?
Another thing we collectively need to realize, is that we are debating 3 different topics simultaneously here, which seems to cause friction because people aren’t on the same line. Those topics are:
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The disparity in difficulty between Nurgloth and other Lords, and whether that is good or bad.
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The fact that his Berserker armor type affects classes in different ways and creates a different meta, and how much that is actually true, and whether that is good or bad.
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The problem of it being impossible to balance Lords in a general sense when BH and Shade (+ potions) can wreck them in seconds while other classes take ages to hack them down. (Giving them all the same protecting against damage spikes Rasknitt seems to have would solve this, I think.)
If we all recognise that we might be talking about different things we could have a lot less frustration and a lot more productive discussion… In the end we’re all Drengbarazi here, with the goal of helping having the game be all it can be for everybody with our feedback.
Due to design flaw, the “boss killer” clsses also became “lord killer” classes. I think this was unintended and FS simply didn’t bother to fix it because it worked on ALL previous Lords.
Since it’s obvious that the old lords cannot be buffed via armor type nor HP, the most logical step would be using the damage cap to rein in the boss killers from being lord killers too, without taking away from any other killing potential of those classes.
This would need a beta obviously, to fine tune HP and damage reduction with the new damage cap, not just push arbitrary numbers into live.
With the new excuse of muh season, we cannot expect reasonable action from FS, so they will simply nerf Nurgloth as they do usually, with an axe.
I want to repeat a suggestion I’ve made in previous shade discussions. I don’t get why FS doesn’t just nerf the concentration potions, since they are the worst offenders in most careers abuses.
Make it so a concentration potion will fill your ult bar only once, and you will remove many of the problems this careers pose.
As for the boss figths in general, as I said already, the challenge they pose should be proportionate to the lenght of the map before them. Halescourge is quite shorter than the other maps, i’d be ok with the fight being tougher than Nurgloth (a wipe after 12 min is not the same as a wipe after twentysome). And for all the people complaining about the other bosses being too easy, remember that it took a while before they were considered so. If you pub more (or don’t take cheesy buids) even those other bosses can be a challenge.
The potion of concentration can be the deciding factor between a victory and a crushing defeat, so no, they should not nerf the potion of concentration.
The fact that potions are limited on the map makes it balanced enough. You could nerf abilities that spawn or spare potions but that would again butcher builds that use or depend on spares.
Potions are perfectly balanced IMO.
I’m sorry I don’t get this at all. How are concentration potions the deciding factor between a victory and a crushing defeat?
I see them being used to spam the ulti of some classe, expecially shade, BH, huntsman, IE the classes that are reported as being problematics because make short work of bosses.
Totally agree.
Honestly I think there are some myths around Lords.
Burblespue is just an average map… not so hard, not so easy.
Rasknitt is one of the hardest map (in fact imho it should spawn less monks/SVs, but this is another speech).
We can agree about Skarrik and Bodvarr… BUT if the team hasn’t BH or Shade, these Lords are very fun to fight and they have an average difficulty.
I’m worried that if we buff the Lords they will become too hard (or simply too “bullet sponge”) without BH or Shade.
For this reason Fatshark must not balance the game around two careers (like, I can’t prove it but I’m sure, they did with Nurgloth).
Believe me, you should. More threads there are about one argument, more it means that the argument is “hot” and appreciated. It’s important to point out.
If the thread is well motivated, and your thread would be without doubt better than mine, it’s not spam.
Anyway it’s just an advice. I don’t want to force you XD
This. Totally agree.
Not-shotgun weapons have better properties to choose (and anyway even giving some % vs Berserker, since their resistance to these weapons, would not change nothing);
Shotguns can melt berserker enemies also without any power vs them.
It’s just an useless properties that increases the RNG (yep, even with the new Lord).
Friend, you know me, I’m a Cata player too… But if I can be totally honest, I have to disagree.
- Making Lord Maps an apart content like FoW would be, as you said, too restrictive.
- About the other idea, imho it’s not only a question of reward. Maps should be balanced each other simply for theirself sake.
I have to know what challenge I have to expect from X modality. For example I know that I can try Cata QPs with pubs… but if one map is a spike of difficulty, it almost forces me to quit. It’s hard to explain… it’s like if we had FoW into normal QP.
But I understand your idea… it’s pretty sad that probably there isn’t the perfect solution.
Yep, this is true, it’s hard to talk about so many arguments… in fact, even in the other thread, I see a lot of misunderstandings.
But I think it’s intentional and fair if bosses killer careers are also Lords killer.
Exactly.
But here I have to disagree.
In tight situations where the group becomes overwhelmed, a concentration potion can turn the tide and save the day.
I understand the benefit of consistency in difficulty for its own sake. But I guess when I play quickplay Cata, I just do that because I want to play Cata. I don’t care about a loss that much since I don’t really need the level completed rewards anymore, really, like probably pretty much everybody playing Cata. So if the price to pay for having a cool new challenge in the game is one failed quickplay more once in a while, that’s a price I’d be happy to pay. And disparity in difficulty between maps literally only has effect on quickplay, but nothing else, really.