EDIT 2: it seems to be a berserker, and this is pretty sad; p.s but we are still waiting official news.
he deals already more damage than the other Lords, there is no reason he must be so tough. He does many AoE attacks that almost cover the entire arena and are hard to avoid (all this during an infinite horde); indeed some unfair combos can happen, like the Lord that throw you (with his scythe) into the orange zone’s explosion; **
if Fatshark’s intention is prevent that some careers kill a boss in one second… they should work on those careers. Using a berserker type they totally destroy those not-broken bosses killer careers (like Huntsman). You are stealing their niche. If I build a career to be a bosses killer I choose to have pro and cons… and you can’t steal my “pro”. This adds RNG. I mean, I work out a strategy… I decide what to give up in order to be a boss killer… then this map appears that fu*ks everything.
It’s like playing a crowd control career… in a map without hordes.
p.s anyway this is mainly a thread to collect information… I will do a more complete one when I have enough info.
The boss itself is fine. I’m glad there’s finally a boss that isn’t trivialized by a dedicated monster killer, and it’s very fitting for a dude that got 3 maps’ worth of buildup.
Still, it IS a very difficult boss fight, yet part of that difficulty lies in the new mechanics it has. It took me and my gf 2 days to finally get around to beating him, I had to play zealot of all things, it was a mess. I don’t think Fatshark should touch anything about that boss fight until we’ve had enough time to learn it, because at this rate we’ll get it nerfed, then we’ll figure out more stuff about it and then it turns into a cakewalk.
That said, I don’t think the guy has too much HP, I do think our damage output is capped, and I believe that’s a very, very good thing. Mostly so it doesn’t get trivialized by shade & bounty hunter. Things that could get taken a look at is how often adds spawn in (or at least the chaos warrior adds), maybe make players immune to the disabler insects for a few seconds after they’ve been freed (My biggest killer was getting chain-disabled by insects 3 times in a row. Every time I got freed, I was -immediately- disabled again and there was nothing I could do)
Piercing shot Waystalker would be your best bet for DPS
Shotguns are very strong against him, Maim Bluntsman specifically
Buckshot/Just reward BH is pretty good, but Double Shotted BH still has higher DPS as long as you can chain headshots
Throwing Axe Consecutive Shooter Slayer DPS was surprisingly good
Volcanic BW Bolt and level 3 Crit refund/gating Bolt Pyro deals visible damage but nothing too OP considering the charge times
Anything that berserkers are weak too should excel against Nurgolth or at least do reasonable damage.
If none of these suit your fancy having one or two players stagger/crowd control while the rest focus’s on dealing damage could work. It’s what I did the first 2 times. After playing 6 or so times I think it’s not too difficult but possibly over-tuned for a QP/uncoordinated team. My only wish is that specials get added to the lord fight and previous lord fights so RV can make some use of his passive.
Most things are overshadowed against nurgolth but certainly not huntsman.
Tested Bow Huntsman, like most things it falls short against Nurgolth.
Blunderbuss Huntsman on the other hand is probably the strongest build against Nurgolth aside from piercing shot Waystalker until we find something better.
I disagree entirely. I think adding a big fat healthbar is a bad and lazy way to balance, while capping damage output is a good way to do it, because it limits the brutal effectiveness of our boss killers without making non-dedicated boss killers feel worthless. And that’s very cool. I didn’t feel like I had to bring a shade or a BH to this boss fight, but they also don’t feel like a waste. That’s good. That’s good balance. This is a very well executed boss fight that, at worst, needs some fine-tuning.
That’s the thing, I don’t think huntsman is trash, either. Sure, he’s not hitting the boss like a truck. Nothing is. He’s still probably very good consistent DPS, provided he can get enough breathing room to shoot the hell out of the guy.
I think it’s ok until he’s swinging his Scythe following you. He air-juggled me like something out of Street Fighter hitting me with the sythe onto the orange floor which bounced me near him where he walloped me again onto the orange floor and so on.
The wipe-zone is when he’s moving and swinging, plus adds, plus the orange floor. The combination adds too much RNG to life and death at the end, as it’s quite hard to kill adds, dodge, block his swings and stay on the safe floor.
Don’t nerf his health, or anything up to that point actually. Just some minor tweak to the combination of threats when he’s 1/3 health.
I agree with this. In cata runs I’ve taken a lot of damage from the orange floor that was in my opinion blatantly unavoidable. The boss forcing me in a bad position combined with adds blocking the way to the safe zone is an issue. There should be a little bit more time before the orange floor explodes (in phase 3).
I also agree on not nerfing the health/damage cap. My unpopular opinion is actually that the other lords should have that too.
I’m not saying that HS is trash in general (as said in the other thread, I think he’s a good career but overshadowed… anyway, this is antother speech)… I’m saying that vs the new lord he can’t fulfill his role of boss killer.
This is the problem… HS has the bosses killer role, the other careers nope.
I mean, we know, BH and Shade can almost oneshot the other lords… HS can’t do it, but his damage is still pretty decent.
Against the new lord, while BH and Shade can still deal a good damage, HS totally nope and he has lost his role… He does the same damage as any other crowd control careers. And this is totally bad.
HS is a bosses killer, he must do more damage than a crowd control career… that has another role and many other advantages.
I don’t know if the lord is really a berserker… but this is a TOTALLY bad choice.
And this is another big problem, I agree. The lord beats the other ones in every aspect (damage, toughness, skill needed).
Anyway, about his health bar, the main problem isn’t the number of HP… but the type of armor. @Fatshark_Hedge can we have confirm? Is he really a berserker?
Because, in this way, you totally kill some careers (like Bow Huntsman that should be instead a bosses killer).
I don’t understand it. Why should Bow Huntsman be a Lord Killer, strong against ALL lords? There is no logic or reason behind this. That is not his “role”.
Giving Lords different armors encourages weapon diversity so that you don’t use the one same universal build against everything. It is the same as the Fort Brachsenbrücke final where people whine that it is to difficult until they have someone in the group who uses the oh-so-overshadowed shotgun. And as @James kindly explained to you, Huntsman is one of the best choices against Nurgloth if you just take another weapon.
Different enemies have different weaknesses. Different Lords should have different weaknesses. Different Lords should need different strategies. The new boss is designed very well and finally you have a boss where a good composition of crowd control and damage is rewarded instead of the usual dps++ benefits. Don’t ruin this. And no, not every final/boss fight has to be about the same difficulty. And no it will not be problematic/unfair for quickplay. I defeated it yesterday in a Cataclysm quickplay match without prior optimization. You just need all players paying attention. As it should be.
There is nothing in the fight which needs explicit changes. I would agree that in the third phase the orange rings could maybe stay a second longer before exploding and maybe reduce a tiny bit the Lord knockback. But that would be everything already.
My understanding is he does have beserker type armor, yes.
This morning I was in the mind he was too tanky on cata, but I’ve run it again this evening and think it’s less a healthbar problem and more adds/third stage problem. (which isn’t too bad if under control, but obvs better with boss killers). I agree getting wombo comboed in his final stage can feel super unfair, but I’m not sure it’s wholly unavoidable. We’ve found keeping a tight hold on spawns and then making sure someone has aggro solved the problem. Maybe the orange ring just does straight damage instead of knockback?
So idk, I’m actually shockingly happy where he is now after more play throughs, and he’s certainly not as onerous as rasknitt where you’re getting monk waves thrown at you.
Because every career (or build) has a role. If I choose Bow Huntsman it’s because I want to be a bosses killer… and it’s simply stupid that there is a boss that breaks my niche.
Every niche must have pro and cons… currently the new map destroyes ManBow’s pro… so only the cons remain.
I have understood what you want to say… but it’s a different speech. Fort Brachsenbrücke is a different speech. Fort throws on you many Monks… enemies strong vs Bow but weak vs Shotgun. It’s a situation where the game rewards X weapon’s advantages. It’s a simply situtation where X weapon is more useful than Y weapon. Enchanter’s Lair, instead, steals Bow’s advantages… because it takes a boss, wich is Bow’s niche, and makes it immune to Bow. Lair offers a situation where Bow’s advantage would be usefull… but arbitrarily chooses that the lord is “immune” to Bow.
It’s like if a map had a special type of Monks super resistent to shotguns.
Moreover already HS is pretty overshadowed by BH and WS… this map increases the gap.
BH can still do tons of damage with the ult. WS has still Hagbane… Huntsman is again the unfortunate one (and don’t tell me that he has Blunderbuss… I’m talking about the bosses killer builds).
I repeat my example. If I play, for example, as 2h Sword Zealot it’s because I want to be a crowd control career… comparing this situation with ManBow’s one, it’s like if there was a map without hordes but only elites. Zealot’s niche would be destroyed.
Or again… it’s like if Fatshark added a new faction where every horde is composed by one only strong guy. Every crowd control career would be pretty penalized.
If a map is randomly chosen from a pool composed by maps that give the same reward… these maps must be the same level of difficulty. It’s a game mechanics (indeed many time Fatshark nerfed o buffed a map because too superior or inferior compared with the average map).
Highest contents like FoW or weaves, indeed, are mod apart.
Apart tastes, the lord has some objective problems: during third phase it can throw you into orange zone’s explosion. You can’t do nothing to avoid it. Or again: enemies can hit you while you are “flying”.
None said that you can’t beat it in qp… but that it’s strongly stronger than any other lords… it seems to me evident.
@Exanimia it’s not one single aspect, you right, but their combination.
He’s a berserker (thanks for the information), thing that makes him the most tough lord. He has tons of specials attacks wich a large AoE and he can use them at the same time. There is an infinite horde. You haven’t any breaks.
And yep, maybe the special combo isn’t always unavoidable… but often it can be.
I don’t want ultra-nerf him… but do you think all these aspects are fundamental for the lord?
I would like to proceed step by step… the first thing is make it a monster-type and then see what happens (also because believe me, try it, try to shoot at them with the Empire Bow… this lord can’t steal the niche to some careers, like Huntsman).