This is a long overdue thread to address item properties, talents, and enemy types in the game.
Currently, Lords fall under different categories for their “type” and it isn’t immediately obvious to players. They might be Infantry, Berserker, Monster, Armor, Skaven, and/or Chaos, but the player has no real way to know that without testing or finding reliable sources somewhere. However, a player shouldn’t need to do such a thing in a game like this to begin with.
All Lords and Bosses should be Monster type to keep both with consistency for recognition and consistency for builds. If a player is building for anti-Monster/Boss in quickplay, the Monster property should apply to all Mini-Bosses/Bosses/Lords. It is illogical to mix and match which Bosses are Monsters and which are not; The issue needs to be addressed.
If you ask any player what is the type of enemy any of the Lords are, what are you likely to hear? Monster and either Chaos/Skaven. When a player is experiencing the game, they quickly learn of a few types of enemies. This being mainly Unarmored, Armored, Elites, Specials, and Bosses. The properties on items or talents give us bonuses against certain types of enemies, which certain context clues usually help us identify.
Infantry referring to the general horde enemies you see on the map. They make up hordes and most of the ambient enemies. They’re always unarmored.
Armor being certain Elites, Specials, or Bosses. There is a distinctive clinking metal noise when you hit or shoot them. If you don’t penetrate the armor, you see a red triangular shield icon.
Specials being unique spawns with unique sounds that stand out from the typical unit. They have abilities like shooting bullets, spewing fire, and disabling.
Bosses get a health bar in the center of your screen. They capture a player’s attention more than anything else. They’re all generally seen as Monsters.
All the Mini-Bosses/Bosses are considered Monsters. That would be Rat Ogre, Stormfiend, Bile Troll, Chaos Spawn, and Minotaur. The ones you see a lot in general gameplay. Then we see Lords which are unique to a map and are similar in concept, but are in event areas and are tougher.
From the left: Gatekeeper Naglfhar, Bodvarr Ribspreader, Burblespue Halescourge, Rasknitt, Deathrattler, and Skarrik Spinemanglr. The only one missing is Nurgloth the Eternal because he is not currently spawnable.
Can your typical or new player tell you what their types are? What about more veteran players?
Gatekeeper Naglfhar - Chaos, Super Armor
Bodvarr Ribspreader - Chaos, Super Armor
Burblespue Halescourge - Chaos, Monster
Rasknitt - Skaven, Infantry
Deathrattler - Skaven, Monster
Skarrik Spinemanglr - Skaven, Super Armor
- Nurgloth the Eternal - Chaos, Berserker
Despite being so similar, Burblespue Halescourge is “Monster” and Nurgloth the Eternal is “Berserker” but not “Monster”. As we can see at the time of this writing, a number of people are pointing out how awkward it is to run into that situation with Nurgloth the Eternal alone.
The current setup is confusing and ineffective. Players on consoles don’t have the luxury of mods like Bestiary to show them stats like this:
Nor do console players have the luxury of mods in general to spawn enemies and test equipment & enemy types. There are a lot of PC players that don’t use mods at all. That means the base game needs to present itself better.
The current properties for types and how many unique enemies there are for each:
- Skaven (17 unique enemies - 3 “Lords”)
- Slave Rat, Clanrat, Clanrat (Shield), Plague Monk, Stormvermin, Stormvermin (Shield), Ratling Gunner, Gutter Runner, Poison Wind Globadier, Warpfire Thrower, Packmaster, Sack Rat, Rat Ogre, Stormfiend, Skarrik Spinemanglr, Deathrattler, Rasknitt.
- Chaos (20 unique enemies - 14 “Chaos” and 6 “Beastmen” - 4 “Lords”)
- Fanatic, Marauder, Marauder (Shield), Raider, Berserker, Mauler, Chaos Warrior, Lifeleech, Blightstormer, Chaos Spawn, Bile Troll, Burblespue Halescourge, Bodvarr Ribspreader, Gatekeeper Naglfahr, Nurgloth the Eternal, Ungor, Ungor Archer, Gor, Bestigor, Standard Bearer, Minotaur.
- Infantry (16 unique enemies - 1 “Lord”)
- Ungor, Ungor Archer, Gor, Fanatic, Marauder, Marauder (Shield), Mauler, Lifeleecher, Blightstormer, Slave Rat, Clanrat, Clanrat (Shield), Gutter Runner, Poison Wind Globadier, Sack Rat, Rasknitt
- Armored (10 unique enemies - 3 “Lords”)
- Stormvermin, Stormvermin (Shield), Ratling Gunner, Warpfire Thrower, Skarrik Spinemanglr, Chaos Warrior, Gatekeeper Naglfahr, Bodvarr Ribspreader, Bestigor, Standard Bearer.
- Berserkers (3 unique enemies - 1 “Lord”)
- Plague Monk, Berserker, Nurgloth the Eternal.
- Monsters (8 unique enemies - 2 “Lords”)
- Packmaster, Rat Ogre, Stormfiend, Bile Troll, Chaos Spawn, Minotaur, Burblespue Halescourge, Deathrattler
There is quite a disparity in category numbers when they’re listed like this as well. For example, without Nurgloth the Eternal, there are only 2 unique Berserker enemies for the Berserker property to be applied to; in contrast, there are 15 unique enemies for the Infantry category if we exclude Rasknitt. In general, Berserkers are not seen as much as other enemies, so it diminishes the property’s value. So in addition to confusing players as to what an enemy’s types are, there is a value disparity amongst properties.
What if we re-categorized this (Infantry, Armor, Berserkers, Monsters) into Infantry, Elites, Specials, Monsters? Chaos/Skaven will remain completely unchanged.
- Infantry (9 unique enemies)
- Slave Rat, Clanrat, Clanrat (Shield), Fanatic, Marauder, Marauder (Shield), Ungor, Ungor Archer, Gor.
- Elites (7 unique enemies)
- Stormvermin, Stormvermin (Shield), Plague Monk, Mauler, Chaos Warrior, Berserker, Bestigor.
- Specials (9 unique enemies)
- Sack Rat, Gutter Runner, Packmaster, Poison Wind Globadier, Ratling Gunner, Warpfire Thrower, Lifeleech, Blightstormer, Standard Bearer.
- Monsters (12 unique enemies - 7 “Lords”)
- Rat Ogre, Stormfiend, Bile Troll, Chaos Spawn, Minotaur, Rasknitt, Deathrattler, Skarrik Spinemanglr, Burbluespue Halescourge, Nurgloth the Eternal, Gatekeeper Naglfahr, Bodvarr Ribspreader.
We see a more leveled quantity across the board. It’s okay to have Monsters be higher in quantity because they’re uncommon occurrences to begin with. There are also Lords unique to specific maps. In addition, the categories are more proper fits for the various unique enemies. This achieves two important goals:
- Make identification of enemy types more obvious and intuitive for players so they can properly utilize properties.
- Make property types more competitively valuable and viable.
As it is, some people already specialize against certain types whether that be something like “Horde clearer”, “Special Control”, or “Monster Killer”. This would simplify the process and help with that as well. Other factors into enemies such as “Armor” or being “Resistant” will remain unchanged as far as a player’s experience is concerned, so those are non-issues. They’ll simply continue to be things that players experience in an intuitive and natural way. Players should also see either no change in their breakpoints or an improvement in them.
The primary changes are properties, classifications of enemy types, and what each unique enemy is classified as.
I recognize this as a substantial change to the game. If nothing else, it would be ideal to see the Monsters portion of the suggestions implemented so that at least Bosses are consistent with player’s expectations. Despite saying that, it should be a substantial improvement to the game if the change was done in its entirety and I promote such a change.
I also recognize rerolling items would probably be a hassle for people. This change may end up being best implemented when a crafting rework is done. Another option would be giving existing players a “gift” to help pay for rerolling existing gear.