Nurgloth fight is still the worst design-wise

Title, fight me.

I appreciate the attempt at making it a more interesting fight than Skarrik, but it just doesn’t work. Again, it all revolves around dealing enough damage in between the hordes upon hordes of trash and the f*ing flight simulator getting thrown around is.

Either the mechanics are ignored because the damage is sufficient to destroy him, or it’s an unending, boring, uninteresting hell.
Remove the circle blasts, or put them at the center of the arena during his last 1/3HP phase.

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Its actually best fight pretty much only fight that is hard to do solo, every other you can easly solo yolo, Nurgloth as only one need some teamwork.

Only thing i would change is make him monster staggerable (though make it short not like tincan that you can perma stagger him).

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Only problematic aspect is him just sending characters flying around the arena and getting stabbed to death while mid air or blown to pieces
The knockback swing is already perfectly dodgeable and extremely predictable (every 2nd swing) but I personally feel like it could be more telegraphed to make it bit easier to dodge.
Otherwise the HP values might be slightly overtuned but other than that I don’t think the fight needs much changes.

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For me the thing about it is it highly depends on your career choices and loadout. There are some builds and combos that work fine for most levels except mister bouncycastle, so getting it randomly during quickplay when you’re running something that doesn’t work well for the fight is really frustrating. You can breeze through the level since your build works fine for normal gameplay but then the boss fight is just hopeless.

You have to - HAVE to be able to kill the ads fast otherwise they block your movement and you get juggled to death. You also pretty much have to dodge every scythe swing otherwise you can be put into unavoidable chip damage situations from the floor. Like, yeah I’ve beaten it, somewhat easily even, but if you come with a loadout that isn’t specifically tuned for that fight its much harder.

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Success is just too dependent on party composition. You either blast nurgloth into dust in the first few seconds of the final phase (if you have a GK, shade or BH in your party, which is down to pure luck in quicklplay) or get spun endlessly in a tumble dryer simulator until death.

If you get this map in quickplay and no dedicated boss killers in the team, you might as well just quit at the beginning of the map and save yourself 20 minutes of pointlessness.

The problem isn’t the boss, he’s just a symptom of the unbalanced nature of ults. I kinda whish they weren’t in the game.

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I think it’s got some issues, but from its base design, it’s definitely the best boss fight in the game. There are discernible phases that aren’t just a time where the boss stands still and can be wailed upon. There are clear hazards and clear waves of adds with an upping of the ante over time.

Yeah, I get how things like his crazy high health pool, berserker armor, and getting ping-ponged can be a real problem; these are not fundamental problems of the fight, though, but specific details that could be addressed.

I feel like with this fight Fatshark took a huge positive step forward in boss fight design. In the future, I’d love to see bigger, tougher, more involved bosses who exist on their own maps - by putting them on their own maps they can be more easily balanced around player ults. The devs should take hints from MMO dungeon and raid bosses to continue to improve their boss fights.

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True.
I did mean it in a hyperbolic way though, of course. Lords need some love, it is undeniable, and Nurgloth is in essence a good fight.
The delivery is a bit poor is all, and kind of contradictory in the sense that they include skill-based mechanics (avoiding areas mainly), but negate it entirely in the third phase by turning the arena into a bouncy castle filled by trash mobs that block you once you’re thrown in the danger zone ; allies respawn in the danger zone, and enemies spawn in the danger zone, meaning they will get to spread out and surround you.
There is no way of kiting Nurgloth effectively in the tiny central area, not with his knockbacks and, again, the hordes of enemies. Last time I ran it we had insane horde-clearing but no damage, and it was just frustrating and salinizing.

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Fair; the problems are certainly major.

It’s a bit like Beastmen; they’re actually very close to being a good addition to the game, but just didn’t quite go far enough, and there still need to be some tweaks. I sadly doubt we’ll get major reworks of either, but hopefully future content will be even better.

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I find it one of the most engaging fights personally. I enjoy the different mechanics, however the one thing I would change is the disabling bees he fires out.
Perhaps it would do well to alternate who gets targeted by them each time he fires one, so one person doesn’t have a barrage of bees flying at them whilst they’re fighting off a horde. Either that, or reduce the number of bees in a salvo, as it can be a little too overpowering on occasion.

I’m convinced most people who play this game don’t want any actual challenge.
The ONE boss in the game that is even remotely challenging and people were calling for nerfs since his release.
“the arena is too small” “Trash mobs” “knockbacks”.
People only want Victory title screens and it shows.

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I actually wrote up some thoughts on this very issue. I think it’s true, to some extent. People want to win, because playing takes a lot of time, and losing is very punishing from a reward perspective.

It’s a complex topic, so I won’t derail.

This definitely isn’t true, and I don’t think anyone has ever said they don’t want to be challenged in this topic. People like challenge, but they like fair, consistent challenge. If you read the conversation above (and previous conversations about boss fights) you can see that consistency is a recurring theme.

If you don’t bring the right tools to the bossfight, it’s an incredible slog and extraordinarily challenging. If you bring the right tools to the fight, it’s almost trivial. I think people are still trying to work out why this is the case (I don’t want to poison the well with uninformed speculation) and I think it’s a valuable discussion.

My thought is that the bossfight doesn’t necessarily need a nerf. We need to identify why the difficulty is so inconsistent and see if there are ways to alter the fight to make it more consistently challenging for all players running viable builds.

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Nonono.
I want a fair challenge, not one where I’m playing on the receiving end of a concoctionned BH ult.

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It most definitely is.
-Fort Blink 182, hard nerf to the finally because people dont know what to do when it comes to 5 plague monks.
-Convocation of Decay - nerf to the final circle.
-Burgersnot max HP reduced

  • Beastmen
    -and a load of other nerfs since this games release.
    Legend is a snooze fest, and cata is a joke.

So, having to hold M2 while being attacked giving you a knock back is…unfair?
Do you feel the same way for minotaur’s?
Or when a troll smacks you?
I’m trying to see where you draw the line here.

Dude you’re being way too reductionist and combative here. We can all talk game balance without making up straw men arguments to shoot down.

I like being challenged. Challenge is fun. I feel like we’re all on the same page there.

Lets moooove the conversation on to whether or not the challenge posed by this boss is consistently challenging, and why.

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Im literally just replying to your post. It what way is that reductionist and combative.
I’m just disagreeing with what you’re saying. Nothing in that post is a strawman, You said people like consistent challenge, but even when the challenges are consistent they still want them nerfed.

Some of the biggest threads in this forum are about stuff being too hard. Take the recent “nerf CoD” megathread and scroll through it. “End events shouldnt be hard”, “Third campaign map shouldnt be hard”, “unfair challenge” here, “impossible to do solo/clutch” there.

Nurgloth is the only boss fight where teamplay halfway matters. You want to stick together to not get picked apart by flies and have to move together to not get dunked by the aoe.

Damage careers being the preferred way to deal with him is just the general theme of VT2 atm. Why stagger it, and question if that will bug out, or not work on this enemy, if you can just kill it. FS could change that by fixing stagger overrides and adding stagger to bosses, without making them fall over 24/7 like blödvar.

Asking for a nerf on Nurgloth is also exactly what people were fearing would happen once CoD got under the hammer. Its an endless cycle of nerfing the next hardest thing.

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Right here. @Saryk said NO such thing. This is a very reductionist portrayal of the point they were trying to make.

and I feel the need to quote the topic post to refresh everyone’s memory - the central issue isn’t that the event is “too hard” - that is a little bit of a misrepresentation, because the issue is a bit more broad:

I have tried to build upon this by saying the difficulty is inconsistent. It’s appropriate with some team comps, too easy with others, and too hard with yet others.

And if we could like, explore that space a little bit without trying to shut down the conversation prematurely, that would be awesome.

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ok.

I disagree. I think Nurgloth

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How is getting oneshot because you got unlucky touching on teamwork in any way? O_O

His third phase is literally just a DPS race & a luck test.

How is this thing dodgeable? When i fight him i can watch him float up to me and start that silly wide slow ass telegraphed swing but it goes so damn wide and far that nothing short of a career with high dodge bonuses seems able to get out of it.

Small arena i can deal with, mobs spawning i can deal with, but unblockable and mostly undodgeable big swing knockback that lead into mob attacks that kill me or a flight into a knockup into more attacks from him that kill me is not so funky.

I do not know if it was bugged or not but back in old fort i often had occasions where i got 10 stormvermin and monks spawning on both sides of the cannon at the same time. Repeatedly and with only a short time between each wave.

Carrying the cannon was a massive uphill struggle through a mudslide.

I greatly resent this statement! I have been asking his bleeding undodgeable knockback and all that follows it be nerfed for ages. Good difficulty does not come from my teammates having to deal with me randomly getting vaporized by something that cant be dodged on a lower mobility career/build.

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