Nurgloth fight is still the worst design-wise

You are definitely misreading.
It’s not about it being too hard (though it still is a hard event), it is about it being unfair and inconsistent. Inconsistent because sometimes there were no gasrats or blightstormers, other times loads. The 1-2s blindness from entering or exiting the circle is unfair.

I meant the stagger from chain BH ult, not the damage.

The knockback isn’t the problem, it’s what you’re knocked into. It’s the explosions and the inability to kite in a fight where you have to kite the boss if the team can’t kill him outright.
Also his speed and range make it so even when you do block, he eats your stamina ; and when a troll or a Roger yeets you off a cliff, it’s your fault for bad positionning ; here there is no good positionning and you will get thrown around if you eat a random 180 aggro swap knockback.

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I like the design, and on cata with 4 or 5 chaos warriors it’s still fun and engaging and challenging up to the point he starts floating around.

I haven’t kept a definite count so it’s anecdotal, but I reckon 90% of the failures are caused by getting hit while I’m flying through the air or getting hit by the scythe and bouncing off the ceiling and landing on disco floor.

Completing it on cata doesn’t feel like some massive achievement won through tenacity and good gameplay, but rather pure dumb luck that I bounce off the wall just right and landed in the right place.

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That shows how small amount of thinking you do about that fight. You can outdodge him with every weapon, with team work he is abysmally easy, one guy dodge dance with him 2 hits him and 1 kill trash, and just swap when he reagro he is very easy to deal with, he have literally only one attack.
If you play like bot and ignore trash then obviously he is hard because trash will block your movement and outright kills you.

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To be fair I have more successes than failures on the Nurgloth fight, and the failures are just down to damage. The trash mobs are not even the issue, they’re manageable ; it’s just constantly being thrown around and eating unavoidable damage to the face for no good reason while being unable to retaliate efficiently.

I’m going to disagree here too.
We had a GS Merc, a A&S + Flamethrower IB, a Fireball Sienna and a spear HM. We cleared trash with ease, but had no damage for the boss and he had some for us.

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Well you had very low dps heros, you could do it without problem no idea where you failed I had similar settings without dedicated dps and could do him without bigger problem, only took some time though

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Basically the same way you dodge dance something like a rat ogre. The boss stops moving if you go close enough and the knocking swing becomes way easier to dodge. The double swing you can just block like any other attack.
Heck if you feel like you are about to be knocked you can even angle yourself close to one of the 4 pillars in the arena and use that to stop your momentum.
But realistically I haven’t had problems kiting the boss unless i get stupidly swarmed by smaller enemies.

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I have so far found absolutely no way to dodge him on every weapon despite looking for one, his moving chain attack isnt a problem but his wide swing? No way just anything can deal with it.

And really? 1 guy kill trash? With trash spawning in 4 corners of the room running and attacking whatever is the closest to them making it impossible for any 1 guy to keep em all down? What the heck.

What happens in that fight is that 3 people get stuck clearing adds with 1 guy running for their life, the 3 will then try to hit nurgloth between waves and sometimes switch trigger aggro switches.

A video from velsix with a part showing what i mean, velsix is on WHC and i know he was using charmed life for more dodge range, but despite that and running away ASAP the moment nurgloth starts his big swing he still gets hit by it. 5:31

Its actually a consistent theme that he does whatever he can do escape but it just has so much range that it doesnt work…it ends up being just a fat luck test on survival with adds and AOE about, there is not really much skill involved as far as that goes, heck even velsix almost just blow up several times because that knockback just doesnt let people avoid it.

Of course velsix does demonstrate the possible skill of positioning oneself to avoid further damage as much as possible…but sometimes that just wont be possible which is a pure luck element.

I have tried letting him finish gapclosing before i try dodging backwards, did not get me outa range from it. I have tried just not stopping to move and it didnt work either. On average my results were worse than velsix in the video above which i recommend having a look at how silly that big swing range actually is.

The pillar trick is absolutely valid and it´s what i do when i know he´s about to knockback me into the AOE otherwise but it´s far from perfectly reliable and poses a risk where you can get airborne with no block on the pillar/into adds.

He capitalizes on that.

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All the other indiscriminate wide targeting moves bosses do affect and can kill adds except Nurgloth’s scythe. This is also why you get hit in mid air since even if you were blocking prior to getting launched it puts you into this flailing animation where you are not. On high difficulties you’ll be down before you could even bounce off the fire ring for another unavoidable hit. This isn’t difficulty or anything resembling it, it’s just a DPS check to see if you can kill him before he takes the team down (since revives aren’t happening unless you have a stealth or dash ult) and luck whether he’ll be battering on teammates with the aggro of the horde or just himself. This isn’t some test of player ability, it’s pretty cheap and is the main reason anyone loses this fight since the rest is a snooze.

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He is actually 100% kiteable/danceable. All the swiping attacks that do a knockback can be avoided. Even the running attack. It just takes a good deal of practice. The only thing I would change is his hp pool in p3. It can certainly drag on too long if you get unlucky with your comp.

Totally agree… and I’ll say something very, very unpopular. All these people defending this bossfight… I wonder if, these players that are talking about nerf, powercreep, making the game more difficult, the elite of the elite… they write this for the game’s sake or just to pump their ego?

I really can’t conceive how anyone can find this bossfight balanced; but beware: I’m not talking about grade of difficulty, I’m talking about the type. A very different thing. An high difficulty, even if very high, must always remain fair. It must always give you the chance, obviously behind a good dose of skill, to be in control of the situation… well, that’s not how it works with this Lord.

You can take damage, lethal damage, without you being able to react in any way. Short cut: getting hit while in flight and landing on a eruption.

And now I know, I can imagine, someone will want to write: “Git gud, just don’t get hit by the chains”… Um, I’ll explain a Vermintide’s mechanics: the more harmful an attack is, the easier dodgeable is. The more unpredictable an attack is, the less damage it will do. This is what balances the game. Simple example: the overhead of CWs oneshots you… no one has ever complained, in fact it’s predictable as a move.
The arrows sometimes hit you without your understanding how they did it, in fact they do little harm… think of an arrow with an overhead’s damage (and it happened: in the first season of weaves, when there were tons of complaints about it)!!

Lord’s scythes, which is the attack that throws you into the air and then makes you hit by enemies while you are in midair and makes you fall on the eruptions, is the equivalent of one of these weaves’ arrows.

They are very fast attacks. They stun you even if you block with a shield. They have a long range. The boss is very fast and this increases the range. You face them in a small arena, full of enemies, and which becomes even smaller due to the spells it casts. It’s a mess … due to the aforementioned mechanics, these scythes cannot and must not cause damage that can kill you (which instead happens for the reasons, once again mentioned).

I’m not going to start a discussion about this, I will not respond to any criticism, I just want the message (personal opinion) to reach Fatshark… just, please, don’t write things like “Do you want see it killed in a couple of seconds like every other boss?” becausue I repeat: regardless my opinion about how much quickly a boss should be defeated… it’s not that. I specified that it can become even harder, but it must be fair.

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I do not believe that : (

Velsix, our resident deathwish solo runner, cant dodge nurgloth playing WHC with rapier and charmed life. He can parry and sneak hits in the attackchain but he cant dodge the big swing, not even once from what i glanced.

“Edit” A more in-depth look does show he did dodge a few, still means nurgloth has a fairly spammable vibe-check that kills you if unlucky.

(Not so because of a lack of effort on his part. )

And it´s the big swing that kills in the most unfair way possible, knockback into AOE/Minion attacks or just more nurgloth attacks if you do not get to land in time. Any which can kill ya depending on career and health.

I do not think anything else in the game stands as much better chance, and so this is nothing but a DPS and a luck race combined.

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Gor headbuts and CW uppercut disagree with you, but I understand what you mean.

I don’t mind the knockback in itself, it is the chaining into an explosion into another knockback into a swarm of raiders that feels unfair.

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The CW uppercut would be one of his weaker attacks if it didn’t have 2 strikes. Kinda strange they got rid of the minotaur hitting twice with one of his moves but left this in, I guess it’s not so obnoxious since they only use it coming out of stagger.

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I will always say that Nurgloth’s fight is poorly designed.

A boss that can’t be staggered, can easily catch up to you, knock backs into enemy hits or radial aoe damage generates more annoyance and frustration rather then satisfaction on beating him because you know that everything before the boss fight is completely pointless.

The difficulty on this map as was/is Convocation of Decay is heavily imbalanced and lopsided. I’d rather have small or medium random / determined spikes of difficulty throughout a map rather then a massive spike at the end which determines whether you complete a map or not.

Shift some of the end finale difficulty into the earlier portions of maps by say having a guaranteed monster that will randomly spawn in a location that makes sense for a monster to spawn - on top of which could be a patrol or other monster which would be the rng encounter that isn’t guaranteed but could still occur. Have an early encounter in an area that would trigger paced out waves of enemies or just a few enemies - like in that Feast room in Enchanters Lair could spawn a Chaos Warrior in that blocked off room that can’t be accessed - 1 CW that continues to spawn aggro’d every once in awhile could give that amount of difficulty to allow for some interesting encounters and it could also show up in the Nurgloth fight as well.

I get that Fat Shark wants to have epic fights or boss battles but this design in question is more akin to a pin ball machine then a melee combat based game which has a lot of the control taken away by a floating bloat bag.

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All lords should have some form of stagger resistance. This point is a big reason why lords are a joke.

Every enemy catches up to you. You shouldn’t just be able to outrun it.

Subjective, I always enjoy beating Nurgloth.

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Lords being a joke isn’t entirely due to them being able to be staggered. That is a multifaceted issue that involves classes, talents, items, and so on and so forth. Other games have bosses that show visible signs of weakness and they are done far better then Vermintide 2’s rat man jumps down for a super hero pose only to get blown into oblivion soon after.

Enemy’s catching up to you implying that they are the same as Nurgloth is completely false because they aren’t floating bloat bags immune to stagger. No idea why you’d make such a comparison to justify any sort of irrational reasoning that you are trying to prop up for a poorly designed boss. Also you are comparing a boss arena to other maps where running ahead is far more easy when it comes to achieving the end goal or rescuing someone as opposed to a closed in area that can continuously build up enemy numbers, has an outer perimeter of periodic bursts of damage and a continuously chasing zero stagger boss.

Subjectivity when it comes to a map is understandable. You are fine with a map that is easy until the end while I’d rather have difficulty interspersed throughout a map both randomly and with intentional design. This is the same reason why I dislike Convocation of Decay because the end event is the only thing that really matters compared to the rest of the map + it is also a poorly design event due to enemy entry points, bad glare of the poisonous miasma effect and combination of specials / chaos warrior / shielded storm vermin spawns that is imo more lethal then most other events due to spikes of damage and sheer tankiness of enemies that allow a buildup of enemies to occur all the while having a defend the point event.

edit: One big issue is that you have classes that can more easily delete monsters and bosses which is a problem balance wise because it makes said enemies more redundant since you are only usually facing one at a time as opposed to multiple chaos warriors or other elites/specials/enemies.

You also have random team compositions so having a non boss killer can result in a spike of difficulty and imbalance.

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I wrote a thing about it in a discord. I think I even tagged velsix in it. I don’t have time these days to make a video for you. It’s definitely possible.

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I do want to point out that if it is possible, it doesn’t make too much difference if nobody knows how to dodge it. If it requires some meta knowledge or very specific technique, or following a tutorial video, for a majority of the playerbase that means it cannot be dodged.

That in and of itself makes that attack (and that boss) much different from any other in the game. The only other one I can think of that’s close is Bulletsponge Hairspray’s green men - but that’s a different topic.

I can obviously teach myself to dodge it (again, if it’s possible), but I’ve got three randoms on my team who probably will never learn, and I can’t true solo that boss.

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Actually went back and looked up the discord convo. The running attack isn’t dodgeable. However, you can prevent it from happening at all with proper positioning. Then the only time it would ever happen is if there is a random aggro change with someone in the wrong spot.

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Well of course those extra things being there is the backbone of why that attack ends up being so unfair to deal with. I doubt anyone would be particularly bothered about getting sent into a wall in this game most of the time.

Running attack? As in the one where he flies at you and does 3 light swings? That one isnt really the big problem in there. Problem is the one where he goes up to you, stops, then does his big unavoidable homerun swing.

And if that´s all it did it wouldnt be a problem either but unfortunately that does send you flying into his AOE/minions and possibly further attacks from him, which cant be blocked because you are airborne.

The combination move here is what ends up being unfair. I could accept if the attack had a difficult timing, needed to be parried and drained my stamina even then but just getting sent haplessly flying into more unblockable damage no matter what feels like sh*t.

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