Nurgloth fight is still the worst design-wise

I wouldn’t compare those to Nurgloth. Burlblespue’s green goo buds are easily avoidable, just stay far back and do some dancing. He usually targets one person and that target doesn’t change much during one phase (between teleports), so they have to stay back and handle trash whil others can safely melee him.

All other monsters have slams and yeet attacks, and you also have to learn how to dance with them too ; and unless you encounter a player who teaches it to you or you watch a video, the game doesn’t really explain that you can animation lock a roger or a spawn…


That being said, the yeet attacks only punish you if you have a bad positionning. If the troll yeets you into the river on Festering ground, it is your fault.
Against Nurgloth, there is no good positionning. Even about the pillars : his regular attacks (and just him flying towards you) push you back, so you can’t really hold a good back-to-a-pillar position ; and you’d get swarmed anyway.
In Velsix’s video, he’s more often than not being stopped mid-flight by bumping into some trash, not by a pillar.
That is why my recommendation was to invert the circles in the last phase : being able to kite Nurgloth around the arena makes more sense, there would be more teamwork to clear the mobs spawning ahead, and the knockback wouldn’t be as punitive, depending on your positionning.

I don’t want to trivialize the fight either, so if you think this would make it too easy, please discuss. I see this more as a quality of life improvement because if your team has boss-killing potential, as I said earlier, you’re pretty much ignoring these mechanics alltogether anyway ; and if you really aren’t set up for dealing with him, it will still take a lot of time, simply the time won’t be as frustrating.

The problem is the big swing that he does while running (floating really). The standing big swing is very easy to avoid. You can just dodge it. Edit: the big running attack is what I’m saying you can prevent him from doing with proper kiting. I don’t really think you can call the fight unfair if you’ve never even bothered to figure out the mechanics.

See, I never noticed they were different.
Are they actually different, or are they the same but he’s just moving during one ?

Well, the attacks look the same and have the same effect, but one is running and is standing. Basically, to kite him properly you have to block, block, dodge and then stay back a step or two. If you run towards him it will trigger the running attack. Which is completely unintuitive. But if you stay back, it resets the attack chain. Or something like that. It’s been a long time since I’ve got to play the game more than a few mins here or there.

I mean, i linked ya an video of velsix trying everything to dodge that swing and failing, i am just not going to believe you if you do not show some proof to the contrary <.<

And hells even if there is some marginal way that maybe he can dodge that thing but it takes that level of skill then it´s still waaay to much for the game on average. If a guy capable of soloing cata deathwish struggles to do it then most people will never have any hope of doing it.

And such a thing should not be present in the QP rotation.

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Yea, a video in which he was playing alone and still won the fight. Normally, you have a team with you which helps to either remove the other enemies for you or which helps you to switch aggression of the Lord between. A video of someone soloing Nurgloth on Deathwish Cataclysm is not a good argument that it isn’t a skill based fight.

Even if the attack would be completely unavoidable, you can beat him with any composition. If someone dies then the team has made errors before. And even then, with a bit of timing one can still revive other players without invisbility or dash. Usually the fight is easier if you have tanker careers within your team.

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He literally dodged the sweep in the video you linked. What I’m telling you is that you can’t dodge the running attack, but you can keep it from triggering. I honestly don’t care if you believe me. I’m giving you information I got from practicing the event. What you do with that info is your business.

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Except it does showcase the poor elements of the fight being that velsix despite playing perfectly still took massive hits that he couldnt do anything about. He almost died several times even.

I think it´s worth noting that he also modded the damage he did to nurgloth.

“Team has made mistakes before”

No, all it takes is someone eating a knockback into the AOE into more nurgloth or a minion attack or two and someone´s dropped or dead.

As for revives and timing, problem is that as soon as someone drops the arena will start flooding with adds because only 1 will be clearing, 1 will be looking to ress and 1 will be kiting. Then the kiter also eats a knockback and possibly also dies.

Normal cata team does not make this work.

Ok he does dodge it once, or twice if we count the time nurgloth got stuck.

He managed to dodge it twice with 40% dodge range with 6 dodge charges and a weapon with good speed.

I am still pretty sure this is waaaay more than a normal setup can handle, miss anything of the above and you cant dodge.

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I give up. You’re determined to not learn anything.

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Another myth to dispel is that unfair = impossible: a reasoning like “if someone manages to win a fight, then it’s not unfair”.

It’s not so. Defeating an unfair challenge (even in solo) does not prove that the challenge was not unfair.

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As long as he didnt mod the damage to be equal or higher than the damage of four low dps careers, this is hardly an argument. And he died exactly zero times. That is what should be noticed here. And he had just one healing item in contrast to a team with potentially up to four healing items which also reduces the local enemy density. He SOLOed Nurgloth. If one good player can do this, then certainly four mediocre or below average people can do this too with any party composition.

I have yet to see someone with full health being instadowned by the horde enemy damage. Yes, if you get blasted into the fire ring, it is unfortunate. But this is avoidable. Also, I specifically wrote that if someone dies. So even IF you get downed a team mate can still help. Two should be free for doing this after all.

And yes, i regularly (IF someone actually managed to die) see people being able to revive other respawning players in public Cataclysm games. Only time it gets really difficult, it is when only one player is standing. And then again. The team made mistakes before. Lots of them.

The fight is not unfair.

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He made it unfair to himself by his design not by fight itself. Its co-op game not solo :stuck_out_tongue: So yeah your argument that making unfair by player design is sensible argument is just not working here

Horde not but buggy runing swing attack from mauler yes :smiley:

I dont know if anyone else has had this happen, but Ive had a handful of quickplay games where when the other players saw the nurgloth map everyone else decided to jump off the cliff to try for a different level.

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The only thing I’d change about the fight is the respawn locations or AoE ring timers.
Just to give a little more forgiving window to revive allies; getting a revive off without a dash/stealth ult can be quite challenging and usually snowballs into chaos or a wipe.

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Only when we literally just played it the map before…

I’d probably reduce his HP a bit to close the gap between high DPS builds and low ones (being able to knock out the first two phases in one go makes the fight way way way easier), but apart from that I think these are the only changes needed really.

Maybe a slight flinch if he’s ulted, which I don’t believe he has currently? Does feel silly to GK ult him and get immediately slapped before your recovery is even over, but that could just be deathwish changes, I’m not sure.

I am pointing out that vast majority of careers do not have 40% dodge distance and 6 dodge charges. And again, velsix who has an extremely high skill level tries and fails to dodge that swing the vast majority of times.

If you do not see the problem of a boss like this existing in the QP rotation then let me return that statement to you, you are determined to not see anything.

Point in case was not this one success, point in case was the fact that despite velsix far far far faaaar above normal skill level he could not do anything about the unfair elements of the fight and almost got vaporized on multiple occasions.

Yeah he did survive those knockbacks despite enemies about, even if with only 2-3 health, but he could just as well just have died in a way that is just that unfair. He didnt do anything wrong but almost died, several times, just because.

If you do not see the problem with that then i give up.

I have been that person, all it takes is either getting hit by an enemy at any milisecond after nurgloth´s knockback, while falling down from the circle AOE or when you have your back to the pillar and the swing drains all your stamina and enemy hits come in right after.

Drop one time, then die the next because you wont have time to heal unless he switches aggro which is not guaranteed in a run where boss damage is low.

A big swing that takes 40% dodge distance to be barely dodgeable that also easily lets into dropping/killing you is unfair, taking damage despite not making any mistakes is unfair.

And if someone dies then its bloody likely nurgloth will kill someone else too, at which point the run is basically over vast majority of times.

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From a teamwide perspective i suppose one can say that one guy going down to unblockable and nearly undodgeable attacks isnt unfair. But from a player perspective it´s horrendous.

People should not be dying while not making any mistakes.

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He was making lots of mistakes, getting cornered by trash is one of them, of course being solo its hard not to make that kind of mistake but this game is balanced in mind of team not solo player

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I mean, to avoid ever getting flanked in that fight you basically need a teammate or two camping out the side of a room killing all the spawns while you deal with nurgloth behind them.

1 guy holds down 2 spawns on the other side of the room alone.

That doesnt happen in cata.

And a balance that goes " a skilled player can die without really making any mistake and dodging well because his team can hold on in the meanwhile" is a pretty freaking crappy experience to play through.

And velsix did eat hits despite having dodged well at several points, even with a build that has 40% dodge distance.

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