NEW Topic - CONTINUED discussion - Fatshark needs to LISTEN to customers

Warhammer: Vermintide 2 Feedback
41

I peruse the patch notes but missed that… no shock lol

So you mean 1.5 seconds to half a second ‘window’. By that do you mean that they think you are still in that ‘old position’ for a shorter amount of time? Like, requiring another dodge to avoid an attack animation that comes in @ 0.6 seconds after your initial dodge? Enemy tracking ability?

If so, yeah I can see this requires more ‘skill’ or simply more accurate dodge timing. I like that idea, and I hope the intention was to rid the world of those infinite dodgers who did nothing but dodge/attack over and over. I was never one of those anyway

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42

  1. There is a blogpost, or patch notes, or something else in there somewhere, where Hedge (I think it was) explained in detail the “why” of the stagger system, and which effects they hoped to achieve with it. Not sure if you found it or not.

  2. I was in all the Betas, and my impression was that FS actually did listen. I asked about shields; Personal response and changes were made. We were discussing about the stagger system and how the damage bonus at the time was too much; Shortly thereafter a Beta version with reduced damage bonus and less enemy HP. Enemies too hard to stagger; Stagger resistance nerfed. (Overnerfed a little even.) People complained about having to level to get their old skills back; Now you get them at lvl 30 again. These are just a few examples. I admit that FS has been a little light on responding to the community with posts, and I’d have liked to see some more direct replies or something as well, but to say FS is simply not listening is not true. Also understand that there is a difference between FS listening, and FS doing what you want them to…

  3. I must admit some of the latest communication reads a lot like a political adress, where they write a lot of words but say not much… Fair enough. Sidenote though: If you’re the kind of person that believes 9-11 was an inside job and all the media are part of the coverup of the truth or anything, I doubt this discussion is going to go anywhere…

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43

Yes, exactly.

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44

Just say it as it was :sweat_smile: :shark: , they did not communicate at all during the damn 3 weeks, they did like 3 replies/posts basically on stuff that should be in patch notes.

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45

Yes, but from the changes they made it seemed like they did listen. And that was my point. I agree more explanation would have been nice.

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46

Hmm

1: I read all of the initial post, and the overall feeling I gathered was very formal. It seemed as though I was looking in the wrong place, but I will go back and read all 375 or something responses to find it. I appreciate the response btw

2: If you were in the betas and you felt they listened to you, I have one question. Did you WANT these changes? If so, you are in the minority. Although you may be happy, most others are not in my experience. Good distinction to make about listening and ‘doing what we say’… and honestly, its more of a ‘do what we say’ in my book. If I was selling a product and my customer base said we dont like that one, but if you do this, we will buy it… even if I wanted to make it another way, I wouldnt. Im sure you get my meaning

3: Of course. Undeniable. Your reference of believing what you see on TV answers any question I have :wink:

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47

A little bit offtopic. But dodge provided iframes? A only used it to gain some distance from elite hits. No wonder after all changes push/block spear gameplay felt like sh*t.

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48

Flisker, I respect your skills and opinion, and you have spent a lot more time in 2.0 than I did, so, honest question (because I’m honestly curious): Which classes and weapons are in your opinion unbalanced right now? I only have Cata-experience with Bardin so far (completed 6-ish maps I think?) and his loadouts seem to all be fine. Which classes / weapons are now never able to viably do Cata anymore?

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49

If they did listen than… you know, they felt like I’m wrong on basically nearly all my major ideas… because stuff did not get fixed, and now there is massive negative feedback on that stuff so … it prolly doesn’t matter.

I guess issue is they are not taking feedback then, not that they are not listening.

ps: At least they finally did the talents as it should be, and again… it was also feedbacked multiple times during the beta, that nobody needs extra 5 level grind for the new talent row. But still this is so frickin late, it should get fixed in few days not 2 months, such a basic thing.

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50

Unfortunately, after my experience in beta I was like "fck this, I will just take OP stuff and have fun now"* so I basically played only :

  • Flaiming Flail on Unchained = very strong, as it was in beta also
  • 1H Axe on Maiden = very strong again, feels exactly the same as in last beta too
  • Duals on Shade = same thing as in beta, like you’re doing +100% dmg with that headshot trait vs hordes and you backstab/ult down elites, with near guarranteed crit
  • Exec on Merc (since FK is somehow bugged in terms of attack speed/animations) = again feels very strong, same as in beta

Was there some significant changes to the other weapons in 2.0. ? Compared to beta 13 ?

Also Bardin is my least played class so I did kinda everything in beta except for Bardin weapons, so it might be possible that those were kinda fine even back then.

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51

  1. I like the rough direction the game is going, so in that sense I guess you could say I “want” the changes? I know there is more balancing that can be done though. However, the main argument was about FS listening though, and I feel like they did that in a certain measure. They just didn’t do everything some people demanded. And when the split is more like 50-50 in what people want, no matter what FS does is going to make half of people feel like they weren’t “listened to”. Explaining their choices better might have helped in how people felt though.

  2. Oooooo-kay then…

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52

Well, as I so blatantly said earlier, @flisker seems to see my point. He seems to agree with the troublesome topic implications too. So, although I appreciate the time you are taking to respond, there is no question we see things very differently when it comes to game direction. A difference in opinion is a good thing though, cuz if everything was done as I see fit, the world would be a boring place lol

It does seem to me that you are happy with the games direction and, that you dont think FS has a problem with ‘listening to’ their customers. I respectfully disagree :blush:

3: Duh :wink:

EDIT: Having said that, and at the risk of sounding hypocritical… I love this game. Thats why Im here taking the time to whine, and kick, and beg my way into being heard and trying to make some sense of this stagger silliness

My favorite game of all time. Next to my #2 pick, Left 4 Dead 2 haha

EDIT 2: So my favorite game is sick, and I wanna bring some medication… lol

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53

Those are all complex topics and FS just does not engage at all with discussing those. And discussing it with other people is honestly sort of waste of energy, because FS doesn’t care much anyway as we’ve seen. (While they 100% should because they are obviously unable to do any proper balancing themselves, especially for high difficulties, because they don’t have the skill to play them. Nothing wrong with that, but then they need proper test group to do it for them)

It’s like, I could write multiple pages long post about why I think the stagger mechanic is horrible mess, but than I won’t get any damn reply whatsoever from them… so it’s pointless.

Than if I engage in detailed discussin with someone who is willing to actually talk about it in detail like @TmanDW (we had lot of good discussions on this topic, during the beta) … not just “yo dude, I think it’s good” as most people like to do. (While not having clue how that mechanic even works)

Then the conversations do get very long and I think in the end we got to some point like “well we would need to test this idea X and this idea Y to see how it turns out and than go from there”

But … since we’re not the devs… it was just huge waste of energy and time… because we can’t tweak and change those things and try them.

And FS is like “We know the best !” while actually failing pretty hard with major changes and current feedback showing that pretty clearly.

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54

So thats it. The answer I was looking for. Coming from you. The truth.

Cant do a thing. Whining is just a waste of time. They will not implement anything anyway.

sigh

Disheartening, but probably plain truth

I hate being so pessimistic, and not because its pessimism, but because its usually correct :face_with_symbols_over_mouth:

55

well, what you want is unrealistic and a result of not really thinking.

see, the reason the game was difficult at all was spam. spam this, spam that. more, more, more. keep throwing it at you.

the result of more, more, more is that they have hyperdensity issues, they had to widen block and dodge windows due to density and lag, etc.

thats where honestly you stop thinking. you just dont get it. they cant send more crap. they cant keep it the way it is. it doesnt work. get it thru your head. its unviable. they cant balance it anymore as is.

so something had to change. and 2.0 balancing is it. welcome to it. and yes, it sucks. and no, no one likes it.

but it had to be done.

why?

because whinging snivelers refused to allow them to do what is really needed. want to balance the game easy? ok. take the talents, classes, power level, etc. take it all and throw it away.

there you go. YOU are weaker.

then less can challenge just the same as you get now without the problems inherent.

but they cant do that because people like you would scream.

so here we are. a half way measure to try to fix something that has you whining because they are afraid of doing what really needs to be done lest you whine. sigh…

they should just do it and bite the bullet. but they wont. because stupid people post way to much without actually considering the problem and what caused it.

its too powerful of characters that is the problem.

too many foes on the screen at once is a symptom not the problem.

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56

I hope they stop this model after all this negative feedback and start actually listening, communicating a testing stuff properly before they put it out.

I really like the game, but yea I went from providing feedback to more of “complaining/whining” only mode. Because feedbacking lead nowhere.

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57

Easy answer

You may be right, in another game…

But this is Vermintide 2. If you wanted less on the screen, but more difficulty, you wouldnt use the word horde, or even be playing this game. It would be another game

I wont pretend to have the answer, I just know that 2.0 was NOT it

I am not the only one that sees that, though I am sure there are those that would say its not true

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58

It’s not per se iframes, rather enemies that currently focusing you attack your after image, others can start attacking you right after the dodge and you can still be hit by sweeps.

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59

it not that what you arent saying is true. its obvious there are issues.
have you played vt1? or just base this off vt2? i strongly suspect you dont know vt1 at all.

and its not “right in another game… bleh bleh bleh”. its correct in THIS game. not my opinion but the devs.

WHY are there so many on the screen that these are issues? because they want to balance the challenge. its why they have more spawns, more in spawns and waves, more specials, more specials together, etc. they announce it. its to challenge you. this isnt me. this is from the devs if you read what they say instead of just blather.

in post after post after post on update after update, balance after balance they have flat out said that hyperdensity is a problem, phantom swings are problems, etc. none of it is new. they acknowledge it and try to fix it. there is a limit to what they can throw, they are/were past that limit, and now they had to try to fix it another way.

maybe they have, maybe they havent. no one is happy.

but why do they have to throw more to challenge? why? because the elephant in the corner is the players are too powerful to be challenged by fewer.

but this irrational response is exactly why they cant really “fix” the game and instead have to keep doing half way measures.

60

What you missed in the dodge changes is ATTACK TRACKING.
Not just that the 1,5 sec window down to 0,5 while you are “untargettable”, but that when you start a dodge, they still target you for 0,25 sec. So if you dodge too early or too late, they still hit you.

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