Safer than sticking together in current state of the game.
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By coming back, I meant recovering the team from the triple-down at once. Whether they’re miles ahead or right next to you, having several wholly annoying deaths almost at once is difficult to recover from - especially as the Leech, Gunner and FattyStormer were still firing on all cylinders.
I’m not defending the kind of solo play that you seen angry about, and in fact pushing ahead is getting punished hard now and rightly so. Purely on the opposite side of the argument, bunching up can cause similar problems as the hordes are concentrated on one place and hyperdense stacks of things, coupled with the mix of heavies in the horde you can easily 2 people get hit (and downed?) with the same overhead attack of a CW, Mauler, SV - not to mention the SheepGuys.
[edit] I’ve seen your edit - I mean that the current harshness of the difficulty is showing up in QP, and even people who are attempting to fight together can get completely ruined in under ten seconds. I’ve seen far less YOLO Shade/HM since 2.0.x which is nice. I’ve seen far more ridiculous and downright savage wipes.
In reality, you cannot force teamwork, and punishing people in QP for not rumbling around like a bunch of 10 year olds chasing a football is just that - punishing people. I don’t support a change back to 1.6 dodge dance +Shade one shotting Bosses somewhere in the distance, but I think attempting to make players stick together by having severe punishment for not even being in Line of Sight of someone is a step too far in the other direction. In short, FS have changed far too much for the average or even competent player to adjust to and Sigmar knows how the hell it’s getting balanced because so much is different.
Fundamental changes are needed. Welcome to Early Access.
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Just so we are clear… I DID misunderstand at 1st… but after I wrote all that I TOTALLY used it as an excuse to BASH a fool… NO not you. To YOU I absolutely meant no offense… But the fools I was talking about!? Oh yeah… lol
Interesting point to make though further into your response
As I see it here I cant agree. I still may be misunderstanding though
I dont think this change was related to ‘punishing’ anything. The dodge dancers included. So, pre 2.0, dodge allowed for even high difficulty content to be trivialized, and working towards a rebalancing of that ISNT a bad thing at ALL. You may call it ‘punishing’ and I would probably just call it inevitable and a GOOD direction to take dodge. How far to go? No idea. Did they go too far? Maybe, possibly even most likely? I have no idea. Is it JUST the dodge changes that affect the near uselessness of dodge dancing as it currently is in 2.0? I’d say the answer is more complex than that
So it may SEEM to the dodge dancers that it is punishment. But it isnt
Similarly…
The stagger-to-damage mechanic seems punishing to ME… as I HATE the damn thing… but… you think FS is PUNISHING me? Or you think they have a vision of how their game SHOULD be played, and that is part of the continued scope of development, wether I like it or not?
Tho if you ask ME - they NEED to remove it and REVERT! lol
The punishment is for everyone, as spreading out - even a little can tempt a fairly swift demise whether you’re dodging or Staggering. BY cranking up the difficulty across every level then everyone is sticking closer together and suffers the wrath of the AI director if they spread out too far, even on Champion.
The punishment is a good beating if you are even as far away as in a different room and a QP group in Champion+ is getting that punishment often and regularly to demoralising effect. Although I reckon everyone at every difficulty is suffering from blood pressure problems at the moment.
I think the fundamental change to the meta has been the key direction decided by FS and have somehow had a vision of the game that has completely backfired. It is however, here to stay and likely they’ll want a fairly stable and well received(!) build before they launch it on PS4 or XBOX as there is no hope for quick patches there. It’d be interesting to see if there’s a tentative release date for consoles, as it’ll give us an idea of how fast they’re likely to try and fix things.
I suspect we’ll get a fairly large patch every week/fortnight until the whole game is in a much better state so by Christmas the 900 people we got left playing it might have a nice time.
So, as I said, welcome to Early Access or Beta testing for the PS4 release - whichever you prefer.
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I kinda disagree. Since enemy attacks go over blocks, punishment is doing whatever you are doing, even if you don’t split up, overheads, running attacks and AoE will screw you over.
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Ok I think I get it…
Paraphrase: WTF were you THINKING with this 2.0 CRAP!? Its not V2! Its V3 or V3.5!!!
^ too rough? lol
Yeah I am on board here. I dont get it either. Thats what this topic is about. What do YOU think about these game changes and how they effect your game experience
I would LOVE to know WHY. I mean, WHY go against most of your customers? I cant actually KNOW if that is TRUE of course, but honestly, EVERY friend I have in my list have truly NEGATIVE things to say about 2,0+
They WILL balance things slowly I am sure. Eventually dodge wont be AS broken as it is. Eventually slave rats wont be the DEATH MACHINES they are currently
The problem I have, is that I DONT believe, that they will eventually REMOVE the stagger to damage connection. I believe that is counter productive in SO many ways. Not to mention completely lacking anything resembling immersive gameplay. I mean, your axe chops off its ARM in ONE hit! But WAIT! It isnt on its KNEES!!! so NOW you can only TICKLE it! Silly silly silly. Whether its on its knees or NOT — Its an AXE! An axes DAMAGE shouldnt be tied to something that has NOTHING to do with it… much LESS the POSITION the enemy HAPPENED to BE in when it was SWINGING!!!
All balance though I guess. So you may feel the same as I do about difficulties though…
Leave them ALONE
Want HIGHER difficulty? Then ADD one!
Dont change the REST to SUIT it!
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l2p is shorthand for “learn to play” – basically it’s just another way of saying “git gud”, or, maybe a bit more precisely, “play the game the right way”.
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AH! Ok thanks @mahkra!
I just learned to acronym! 
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This makes no sense. How does them not doing what some people want mean that they didn’t still listen?
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Did you not see my earlier post? Comment 272 I think.
Without clicking on those videos (I didnt NEED to)
I KNOW that 2.0 has made the game MUCH more difficult than previous versions
If you dont AGREE with that, I am not going to try to convince you - we all have an opinion and this is the place to display it
So, when I provide some proof of time to kill you prefer to just ignore it. Although, I noticed you just now started saying “2.0” in stead of “stagger”.
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So NOW you are being direct. You are using the word PROOF here, and I can tell you the answer to IF I am understanding your question…
Is your question:
Is the stagger-to-damage mechanic DIRECTLY related to the ‘time it takes to kill’ an opponent in the game since 2.0?
^ Notice, BOTH 2.0 AND stagger-to-damage are in the question
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Well when fan hit the roof group will eventualy split, but during split its imperative to got line of sight of each others to peel when disablers come… thats not Rambo style
You not understand concept of Ramboing: Rambo is guy who think he is son of Sigmar, he not comunicate with group, nor he care for group, he is just one man army, he push foward even when previous pack far from clearing, then he alone burn entire group healing supplies, then blame others for bad play because he got circles.
Oh yeah, that quote from @Bankrotas you pointed out is wrong on SO many levels imo
But we seem to go off-topic every now and then
The topic is what changed in your game since 2.0 with respect to difficulty and how you feel about it, what you think of stagger-to-damage and how you feel about it, what happened to FS beta and the feedback loop to game direction ratio
My hope is FS reads these posts and considers the opinions listed in future patches
Simplified, but to the point
My initial comment was referring to people saying that the stagger system was slowing down the game and making all enemies more difficult to kill. Thought I was being super obvious about it, but I guess not.
In current legend more often than not that it still remains the same strategy as before to split up the hordes. That said it’s more annoying than before since dodge back has been nerfed it’s can be often disadvantagous to even help out disabled teammates.
And I am probably an outlier since I have so rarely seen your described Rambo style in 700h I played this year that it’s not something I had a name for.
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Ok thats still not a yes or no
So you are saying:
YES the stagger-to-damage mechanic is ‘slowing down’ the game because enemies die SLOWER in 2.0
or are you saying:
NO the stagger-to-damage mechanic is NOT ‘slowing down’ the game because enemies die FASTER in 2.0
I am seriously not getting what you are saying
Omg… Don’t know how else to put it. I said…
And then put up 2 videos showing me and my bots kill things faster and completing the map faster post 2.0 against the same type of enemies.
So, I was implicitly asking, “If stagger is the main problem with 2.0 then why am I killing faster and having an overall easier time?”.
@Bankrotas if you are a proponent of anything ‘rambo style’ as described previously and elaborated on by myself then you will find no support for your playstyle from me. This is a TEAMWORK game and it is WON in the same manner
^ I have 3600+ hours I played… and the ONLY time the CHOICE was made to INTENTIONALLY ‘split up’ a horde was… wait. Never. (Unless of course, you werent clear, and you meant BOSS + HORDE - in which case it STILL isnt splitting up the HORDE, its SEPERATE the horde from the BOSS so as to slay efficiently and without distraction)
And to say ‘In current legend’ as a prefix to that makes me wonder if your 700h had two accidental zeros at the end. I know that sounds like I am being rude, but I am seriously NOT. I have never. Ever. HEARD over voice chat, or SEEN in a chat window in ALL my time on this game since release a ‘strategy’ to split up the horde. Not once.
Saying ‘speak for yourself’ may be a little of an understatement, because I think it LITERALLY applies in this case