NEW Topic - CONTINUED discussion - Fatshark needs to LISTEN to customers

[Drakonhammer]

@Voidq

Can you say how the mechanic has increased teamplay for you in particular?

imo that’d a lot more constructive to the discussion than saying it has without explaining how/why.

All it did is that bad plays are punished more severely and good (team) plays are rewarded more than they were before. Push, block, heavy attack and push-stab all exist in the game for a reason (obviously), use them. As long as you use those properly and actually take full advantage of your melee weapon’s potential, you will do just fine.

The first part is true, but I think that was due to the other adjustments WoM brought rather than that mechanic. I’ll quote what I posted in the other thread to explain why I don’t think the mechanic itself works particularly well in promoting teamplay:

@Drakonhammer

The problem is that it doesn’t promote teamplay. Teamplay in VT2 with its weight of numbers enemies means often hitting different enemies coming in from different angles and having good situational awareness so you don’t get swamped, the only time you’re hitting the same is if you’re in a chokepoint (which anyway trivialise hordes) or there aren’t that many enemies around (not much danger either way).

@Voidq

I mean most recently there was this thread which you were in?

Which simply discusses the possibility of implementing stagger dmg natively instead of via talents.

Yes and I don’t agree with that solution as I don’t think it fixes any of the inherent issues with the mechanic, but our posts there also included gameplay reasons why we don’t like the mechanic.

@Voidq

Here’re a few I can remember and/or find via search just now

Yeah I’ve clicked on a few, all I see is “this is bad” with no logical reasoning behind it WHATSOEVER.

I mean yeah those responses are in there too, but you’re intentionally being obtuse if you’re ignoring the posts that do explain why they don’t like it.

The repetitiveness aspect I concur with in one major area and one major area alone, and that’s combat initiation. It isn’t a problem on weapons with automatic CC or an inbuilt modifier (which FS has added to 1h axes now afaik?), but to maximise horde DPS on other weapons without CC you need to initiate with a push. That is limiting, I like being able to throw pushes in naturally in the middle of combat for CC and not having to worry about that.

Does that make the game harder? No. But again, if you’re concerned about playing optimally it limits your flexibility in how you enter combat and that point it’s less tedious to take a CC weapon instead.

Again I prefer throwing pushes in where the CC is actually needed (and you could argue that the game was lacking in that before), not to take advantage of an arbitrary damage boost. They’ve always come in handy for taking aggro off of a party member.

@Voidq

Somebody point out to me exactly what’s so wrong (or basically unplayable according to Steam forums) with the combat as seen here, I’m genuinely curious:

Well I haven’t tried the latest version of WoM (can’t atm) after the nerfs, but one thing I do have to say from skimming through the video, a lot of the time you and the elf are hitting different enemies, so the damage boost from stagger isn’t even taken advantage of. That’s why I don’t think FS should rework combat around it as much of combat/teamwork involves covering different approaches and so on, like in my quoted post above.

Making combat more dangerous if you don’t use all the abilities in your arsenal well (dodging, pushing etc.) I’m all for, but I don’t think the blanket stagger damage boost is the way to do it. Again, it becomes a weapons balance mechanic then, rather than a pure combat one, which brings a whole slew of new problems. And again, I wanted Legend to be harder than it was pre-WoM, and I still want Cata to be a lot harder than Legend.

If stagger’s adjusted on a per weapon-class basis it might be balanced but then the question becomes: why didn’t FS simply buff the underperforming weapons from pre-WoM?