New Character or Classes for the expansion?

Warhammer: Vermintide 2 Gameplay Feedback
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The tricky part about any Bretonnian is that it’s hard to get one character who could conceivably have three career options. It’d be easiest with a peasant, but c’mon - if you’re gonna have a Bretonnian, we all know their whole fantasy revolves around being knights.

For a Bretonnian Knight, you’d have to give them a proper knightly class (errant, grail, whatever), who has no ranged options. You could also do a Son of Bretonnia, who are the male children with magical power, raised by the Lady of the Lake to be her personal knights. They’re very magical, so this class could have some kind of blessings or prayers as ranged weapons. And finally - a Herrimault. Basically a Robin Hood-esque figure.

Backstory would have to be that he was born with some magical talent - we don’t know that every single last magical baby born is discovered (this idea rides on this), thus in one scenario he became a normal knight without ever realizing he had magical aptitude. In another, he is taken by the Lady of the Lake. And in the last he was wrongfully accused of a crime or whatever, and becomes a Herrimault to fight against injustice.

Also, at this point, I agree that a Grail Knight would not be out of line for the existing heroes. Grail Knights aren’t even heroic units, and several of the characters’ classes are. Plus, they must have wills far beyond the average to not be riddled with Nurgle diseases and chaos corruption by now.

@Tamren - that’s a good thought, about a new character not necessarily having three careers, though I think that if they’re already making a new character, they might as well squeeze as much out of it. Many assets (weapon models, voice lines) could be recycled.

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Sorry to double-post, but regarding making a Lizardman unique; I think a Skink is uniquely suited to be good for that. Lore suggests but never explicitly says they can’t switch jobs if necessary. Literally, if a Slann said to do it, they would. And notably, blessed spawnings of lizardmen are a thing, who are destined to do great things and could also easily be justified into doing unusual things (like being a lone operator).

But gameplay - there’s a lot of really good ways to make a Skink stand out. Skinks can do basically every single infantry role in the setting, so there’s no shortage of options.

For a warrior class (just make it a warrior Skink - they operate in Cohorts, so I called it a Cohortian), give them passives and talents that focuses on the fact that they are small, nimble fighters; give him a passive for more effective dodges (so he can more easily take heavy weapons than his other careers). Likewise, his active could be a self-buff, named and based on the various blessings of Old One gods, that just makes him a better fighter in melee.

Skinks can also use magic, and I think an Astromancer would be a really good fit. Notably, skinks can only take Lore of Beasts or Heavens in tabletop. There’s a recurring theme of prophetic visions among the characters - hell, even Bardin kind of is making an unwitting prophetic prediction when he says that Helmgart should be filled in and then they could “start over”. Astromancy would be so perfect for the game, because, while we have a dedicated fire-caster, we lack the other classic elemental spells - and Lore of Heavens uses wind, ice, and electric attacks. Lore of Heavens also lets you call down comets down to crush your enemies . . . Only mentioning that because it’s cool. And with their glimpses of possible futures, all kinds of neat passives/actives could be worked into that. A chance to avoid damage sometimes? Pinging special enemies or pickups? Some kind of warning that you’re being targetted?

As an ult, you could give him Wind Blast that does a little damage but mostly staggers back enemies in a cone - and at level 25 you could get the option to make it an icy blast that freezes enemies in place for a time, or an electric blast that lacks the knock-back but does more damage. Just spitballing there, but those are entirely plausible within the lore and would allow you to really tailor your character while playing into the class fantasy of an elementalist.

Finally, Skinks are excellent skirmishers, so a ranged class would be easy. Their potential ranged options are really unique, too - blowguns, javelins, fireleech bolas, even a “lesser” version of Kroq-Gar’s Hand of the Gods (which basically shoots tiny suns). Skinks also often use poison, so this class could essentially be focused on poisoning and/or debuffing enemies while dealing damage from range.

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43

I KNOW IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN…

but, if they do create a Greenskin hero, (Black Orc / Choppa, etc) I would buy 10 copies of whatever DLC it came with. And I mean this seriously.

But I know for a fact that FatShark isn’t interested in appeasing the player - instead it seems like they are more interested in showing their interpretation of the EndTimes franchise.

They actually remind me a lot of Mythic. I’m probably just butt hurt

(Forum ROFL-stomp flame-replies in 3…2…1…)

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And I say this knowing full well that in “End Times Lore” - Greenskinz are arch-enemies of the dwarves.

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Its the Winds of Magic dlc, so why not give every character a magic user subclass?
I am pretty sure the lore buffs here can come up with one for each hero.

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Pretty sure I would be hard to have completely magical subclasses. Anyway, pretty sure we won’t see new careers or character in this DLC so we’ll have to wait (and then it won’t be called Winds of Magic ^^)

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Obvious choices for new heroes would be High Elves as mentioned, Treemen can be justified somehow especially if a Wood Elf is in the ranks.

More divergent Alternate History classes can be justified as well. Runesmith, Knight of the Blazing Sun, Nature Mage, Priest of Sigmar, and Celestial Wizard are all viable options. You would need to make a significant amount of weapons, weapon reskins (mostly for Sienna), and such, but just imagine the possibility of Sienna as one of the other eight winds of magic.

And if the devs truly wanted to be insane, it is entirely within the realm of possibility for a Sorcerer(ess) of Tzeentch to join the merry band of adventurers fighting against the forces of Nurgle just because Tzeentch is crazy like that and could easily command one of their own to fight against the end times because change is awesome and the end times would stop change, or maybe just to mix it up or what have you because chaos.

It’s a stretch, a very crazy stretch, very insane especially given the setting and a literal inquisitor being present. But it’s definitely possible. And, well, the enemy of my enemy and all that.

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Regarding Greenskins; I think it bears noting that the whole thing about them being on the side of “order” is a bit off. They were . . . but not because they actually cared about order or were friendly with any other order faction. Grimgor literally just wanted to krump Archaeon because he wanted to show he was da best.

That’s the thing about Orcs; they don’t take sides, they just want the best fight.

I actually think far bigger issues are that 1) Orcs just never ever seem to cooperate with other beings, and 2) every current hero would be unwilling to work with an Orc or vice versa.

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They rarely coorporate with other Orcs, if you are bigger, I will punch you. End times is a pointless effort for the heroes anyway since chaos will win at the end. Or the Orcs depending on who you ask.

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^This. Warhammer is a crazy and twisted world, but god damn, it has some rules. Greenskins could be tricked to some form of cooperation, tricked being the key word there. But an open alliance with humans, an elf and a dwarf?! That’s never gonna happen.

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51

Yeah, exactly. Me, I’d love to be able to play as a Gobbo; they could have really unique mechanics, oddball weapons, and are generally hilarious. But it’d just never happen.

However, Orcs could easily be tricked by the Skaven into joining the Dark Pact (and fit right in with the team-killing ways of many enemies) if a warband just got convinced that the U5 thought they wuz da best. Orcs would go into an excited FRENZY, wanting to krump 'em to show that THEY were da best!

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52

Heres an idea for an expansion based on the addition of chaos to the game, Madness and Corruption, the idea that direct exposure to the corrupting influence of chaos begins to have an effect on the hero’s represented in new sub classes, Bright Wizard can become a chaos sorceror (Probably Tzeentchian) Kruber can become a Chaos Bezerkerof Khorne, the Witch Hunter can become possessed, Kerlillian can slide into worshipping Khaine the Elven God of Murder and become a Witch Elf/Daughter of Khaine and the Dwarf can become an engineer or Chaos Dwarf.

Theme Wise
Chaos Bezerker: Twin axe wielding lunatic with a stacking buff based on the number of heads he takes with a slant towards taking on elites for the honour of khorne.

Chaos Sorcerer: Heavy CC by summoning tears in the fabric of reality from which daemons pour out.

Possessed: Mutated arm similar to how marauders worked in the Old Warhammer Age of Reckoning MMO. Friendly fire on cleave attacks to represent the daemon within trying to get out.

Witch Elf: I don’t know how you would make this seperate from her other classes to be fair

Engineer: Heavy focus on guns and gizmo’s possibly spawning things like turrets and traps

Literally just ideas hell it might be nice even as just flavour I mean come on, how many times have we done a full Tome/Grimiore run?

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Please no heresy. There´re many really good possibilities, Luz / Jade / Ice Mage, Bretonnian Knight, Warrior Priest, even a Lizarmen. I would like very much to see new heroes, this was already done by Diablo 2 adding the assasin and the druid, I’m sure it would also work in V2.

What we can´t do is to believe that an orc, a servant of chaos or an Undead cooperate with our heroes.

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54

Well, we do have a bunch of people who want an undead in the party and think it would be a great idea.

Even so, I’ll have to agree with you. While @danp164 has a very cool concept in mind I don’t think it would quite fit. I like where your head is at :stuck_out_tongue: it would be a cool twist to see.

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The only undead that would reasonably fit the lore would be a Lahmian vampire like Geneviev. They have their own goals and machinations but they do make a point of protecting the Empire if push comes to shove, mostly because they live in it and do not want their plans to be disrupted. Lahmians are the most capable of blending into society and can supposedly survive out in the sun with a simple umbrella without bursting into fire. However they still need to drink blood, and they would no doubt turn their noses up at drinking from rats, or worse, rotbloods. Lahmians are also not known for martial prowess, though if they live long enough they can pick up a trick or two. IIRC Genevieve travelled to the east and learned a bunch of martial arts for instance.

As far as heresy goes this is pretty up there, but it’s at least plausible since Lohner met Genevieve once and famously she did save Karl Franz from one of Drachenfel’s assassination plots. A warrior/monk lady vampire character would be a really cool fit and have a lot of options for weapon/skill customization.

A possible second option that might fit would be a Blood Dragon, basically a fallen vampire knight that isn’t strictly evil but focuses on martial prowess as a means of controlling and ultimately defeating their thirst for blood. Just adding a blood dragon wouldn’t make much sense, but as we’ve discussed a Bretonnian knight would be a reasonable fit as a character and Blood Dragon could be the third subclass. Every character except Kruber has a “fallen” sort of class as their third and blood dragon would fit right in.

The other types of vampires, the Von Carsteins (Dracula), the Necrarchs (necromancers) and Strigoi (ghouls) are too feral/evil/insane to work as anything but an enemy.

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idea
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57

Ok well a couple of things. Sure orcs never really allied with other factions. But that’s my exactly my point: this wouldn’t be one faction forging an alliance it would be individuals trapped in the same shitty circumstances. There is not much politics involved in the context of vermintide because there isn’t really anything left. And that Greenskins like or rather need to kill stuff isn’t necessarily a bad thing in the context of endless hordes of skaven and northmen. And also there doesn’t need to be an alliance as a greenskin hero might be a prisoner or he might not have anywhere else to go. Likewise the other characters might profit from him --> He takes damage and kills stuff and if he dies, well it wasn’t one of them at least. In Addition, as orcs are dimwitted maybe the char doesn’t even really understand what exactly is going on or just doesn’t care that everyone hates him.

But sure this is just a discussion for the joy of arguing with other people I suppose. I just think it would bring more interesting variety to the roster as well as show the dire situation and chaotic tumult of the endtimes where you can’t really choose your allies anymore because everyone is dead. And I would prefer seeing something completely new rather than having a mash-up of existing characters. Grail (or any other form of) Knights, White Lions, Warpriests, etc. just dont bring in enough interesting new stuff in my opinion.

And also you could bring in interesting new mechanics. For Example the ultimates of a greenskin could all be tied to hurting other players in exchange for massive buffs or crazy damage bursts. You could also tie the ult not to a generic cool down but to a certain number of kills, or have the ult grow stronger with a certain amount of kills, like kill x enemies for a level 1,2 or 3 ult.

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You make an excellent set of points with how you would like to see new mechanics :stuck_out_tongue: I think you are universally agreed with, there. Most of us would love to see a new character for their abilities, not just for the sake of having a 6th.

However, you can put all of those listed mechanics on a vampire as well; Genevieve would certainly cause a ripple in the pool if added. I also think that a high-elf with the careers White Lion / Swordmaster / Shadow Warrior would still be very exciting and bring up new mechanics; the key is that FatShark be creative with the character they make. The same goes for a Grail-Knight, a War-Priest, an elven mage with 3 different wind-careers, a Kislev Bear-Trainer, a Dryad with different ‘seasons’, etc.

I also agree that it makes sense for there to be an exception to the rule, but that’s what Warhammer is infamous for: the good guys do not take exceptions to the rule. If you are considered “evil,” you’ve got about as many rights as the grain those humies harvest.

  • Kruber would be pretty chill with a Greenskin, but still aggressive and angry with it
  • Bardin would kill the thing on sight for the 1000s of grudges in every Book of Grudges against the orks
  • Sienna is wiser than most, but Estalia has come under threat of Waaahgs before and probably has a jaded view of them; I can’t say she’d respond well to an Ork
  • Kerillian hates the forces of destruction more than she dislikes how smelly dwarves are; kill-on-sight seems likely
  • Saltzy might be the only one trying harder to kill the Greenskin than Bardin would

That addresses the Uber-Doober 5, but they are the Special-Forces for the forces of good right now. They are the “Call of Duty Black Ops” soldiers and they are organized by Lohner. Would Lohner really put the unpredictability of a Greenskin in his troop?

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59

Meet the Gold Order

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In the Empire of Man, the Golden Order (or just the Gold Order) is comprised of those Magisters who study and embrace the Yellow Wind of Magic, Chamon.
Not only they are alchemists but also scientists.

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Looking to transmute a metal to another “more rare” metal.
They’re also looking for the eternal transmutation, as the usual ones changes back after some time.
They tends to be very “logical”, and do not magic only but also science.

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This is the most logical choice for a character for 2 reasons :

  • Story wise, it makes more sense than a vampire or an orc as it will be accepted by the original team with ease.
  • Gameplay wise, it brings more features and a more unique gameplay than any other character currently presented =>
  • A Bretonnian would mostly use the same weapons than Kruber, and even if it could be a bit different, it doesn’t bring “something new” (it’s still a knight which will also be on foot as the horse won’t be manageable in a game like this)
  • A Lizard would be melee oriented obviously, and can be a bit more mobile but would mostly remind the savagery of a Slayer or a Zealot.
  • A Vampire could use an interesting gameplay with Blood but how ? We don’t really know. Only basing the whole character (3 careers) on a drain of life would kinda look like a weird mix between Sienna (A new “bar” to manage) and Kerrilian.

Opposed to this, this new mage doesn’t PLAY like another Mage. So it’s not a reskinned Sienna, it would be far more control.

Some possibilities are “summoning weapons”, “turning ennemies into various metal during seconds”, “reinforcing weapons or armor”, “using various potions”, “rustying armored enemies”.

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Disadvantage are that this would not be a new race, but a mere human (again).

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60

Remember that I’m not attacking, I’m just trying to poke and prod to spark debate over what we are talking about :stuck_out_tongue: My first questions is here:

I’m confused how this hasn’t already happened. Sienna has a sword, Markus has a Sword, Victor has a sword. Markus has a Two-Hander, Victor has a Two-Hander. Bardin has Shields, Markus has Shields. We are already sharing weapons between characters. Is adding another character with a normal-ish arsenal of weapons out of the question? Assuming we are only addressing weapons/kit with this question, what would The Gold Order mages wield? Just a staff and sword? Wouldn’t that copy Sienna as much as a Knight would copy Kruber?

Wouldn’t this only be so unique as any other caster? So a High-Elven mage would be equally unique to, if not more unique than, a member of the Gold Order? What about a Warrior-Priest, wielding the magics of Hysh? They would be just as unique and easier to implement (light tends to have a lot of buffs/shockwaves), though possibly less epic than turning a dude to wrought iron. If any mage was added that didn’t wield Aqshy, I think they would already be very different than Sienna.

If it’s a skink, I think they could have some hilariously fun mid-range weapons, but I 100% agree with you if it is a Saurus. Then again, we can even consider a Skink-Mage… they are great mages, too. Would they be as savage as the Slayer/Zealot still if we consider them an assassin or a life/light/heavens mage?

These are both friggin’ rad and, if we do get a Gold Order mage, it would be awesome to have them as abilities. Perhaps a career skill magically summons an additional blade to allow you to dual wield for 25 seconds? Maybe there’s another that, in a small area, amplifies damage taken by armored units as though anyone who strikes them deals damage like they were under the effects of a strength potion?

Cool Idea, though! I like it :smiley:

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