Zealot ult is actually his grenades. Ogryn box still sucks and is traj but sometimes in STG specials literally double up and you can kill 2 mutants with 1 box.
Veteran grenades are horrible for clearing thanks to grenade fall off damage vs soft targets, and bad for shooters too. They’re there for the times elites get sucked into the meat grinder and you didn’t have time to gun them down. And I guess monsters thanks to the double bleed nades coming back.
You seem completely unable to grasp the idea that player skill and usefullness of weapons/abilities are separate factors.
There is clearly no way to reason with you, so i will stop trying to do so.
I’m sorry, do you think “only vets deserve ammo, and only zelots deserve grenades, and nerf the gun that allows zelots/Psykers to be useful vs shooters” is an argument worth taking seriously?
That is not what i said.
From an unreasonable person, i expect nothing less than a strawman.
"Ammo reserves for psyker and zealot could get massively reduced for most guns.
Veteran‘s passive that increases ammo capacity could get buffed to compensate for the reduced base ammo capacity of the guns and keep the veteran ammo capacity as it is now.
Or there could be two variants of the auto pistol, with the better one only being available to the veteran and the other one getting a massive ammo nerf.
Imo the autopistol is only a problem when it is used as a crutch by bad psykers and zealots.
If these classes only had access to a small amount of ammo, they would more likely just use the gun as a sidearm to deal with a few specific targets, which would be completely fine.
And if they vacuum up all of the ammo, trying to not actually use any of the tools that their class has access to, they should be kicked from the group."
Here is exactly what you said.
I don’t need to strawman this, it’s more ridiculous than anything I could strawman
This but for all ranged weapons.
BTW, Fatshark got a good idea on ammo balance at the start of Darktide but kept buffing the ammo supply for no reason cos people cried about not having enough ammo (because they just kept misusing it).
Just out of curiousity, how does your Zealot’s nades do damage? Am I missing something here?
Seems like you are missing a trip to the Psykarium
Ohh gosh, so it DOES do a smol DoT!! Ahahahaha I never knew that… what’s that for ? Any good usage/combo for it?
Aight i will give it one more try.
Not because i expect you to suddenly become a resonable person, but because i do not like people spreading misinformation.
If you read carefully, i suggested to reduce the ammo reserves of psyker and zealot with most guns, not just for the auto pistol.
This would force bad psykers and zealots to stop crutching on a gun and learn to play instead.
Zealots do not need guns to deal with shooters. Their class is made to deal with everything in melee combat (passives, feats, hidden stats, class ability, grenade).
Psykers also do not need guns to deal with shooters. They have access to BB, ascendant blaze, staffs and deflector force swords.
If zealots (and psykers ) did not have so much ammo that they can comfortably spam it at all the shooters they encounter (and in some cases even at hordes), they would have to learn to play better. Because they would have to save their limited ammo for situations that actually warrant using it.
It is not this gun (or any gun for that matter) that allows zealots (and psykers) to be useful vs shooters. Both classes have multiple other ways to deal with them.
But it is this gun and others, which allow especially zealot players to play on a difficulty that is far beyond their actual skill.
This is also not at all what i said.
I said
Zealots only have 3 grenades at a time, but are by no means limited to 3 grenades per mission.
Grenade pickups exist and usually, the best decision is to have a zealot pick up these grenades, since the zealot grenades provide high value and zealots do not regenerate their own grenades.
When given the choice, which class on the team should be prevented from running out of grenades, that would be the zealot.
Zealot has priority when it comes to grenade pickups.
And
The veteran class is the only one that actually relies on ammunition to function properly.
Veterans have a passive that grants them higher ammo reserves, which also means that they get more ammo from pickups.
When given the choice, which class on the team should be prevented from running out of ammo, that would be the veteran.
Veteran has priority when it comes to ammo pickups.
Nowhere do i say that only zealots should get grenade pickups, or that only veterans should get ammo pickups.
I said that they make the most use of these pickups and should be prioritized when it comes to who gets the pickup.
So yes, you were strawmanning.
And to put it all back into the context of the topic of this thread:
If ammo reserves for zealot and psyker got crippled, they would be forced to spend their ammo more wisely and not spam their gun at everything. Be it the Auto pistol or something else.
"Zelots do not need guns to deal with shooters. Their class is made to deal with everything in melee combat (passives, feats, hidden stats, class ability, grenade).
Psykers also do not need guns to deal with shooters. They have access to BB, ascendant blaze, staffs and deflector force swords.
If zealots (and psykers ) did not have so much ammo that they can comfortably spam it at all the shooters they encounter (and in some cases even at hordes), they would have to learn to play better. Because they would have to save their limited ammo for situations that actually warrant using it.
It is not this gun (or any gun for that matter) that allows zealots (and psykers) to be useful vs shooters. Both classes have multiple other ways to deal with them.
But it is this gun and others, which allow especially zealot players to play on a difficulty that is far beyond their actual skill."
BB and Ascendant Blaze is not good enough to deal with Shooters alone. Just because you went to put Psykers in a CC/Anti-horde box doesn’t mean they need to be there. It seems like you are mad that a Autopistol Psyker can deal with every enemy and you somehow think this is Unfair somehow
Maybe it’s because you put your own class in that box. News flash, Zelots get extra ranged damage within 25 meters and FS has said their ranged armor piercing on ult is intentional - Zelots have class skills meant to improve ranged damage dealing. Same thing for Psykers who use guns, they have builds that clearly support that style of play
Complaining that good builds that you don’t like mean that a player doesn’t deserve to play on Damnation is just ridiculous, you may as well just say every Veteran player is trash because they just rely on their ult to win
Nerf ninja turtles imo
Yeah… i didnt do that.
I complained about players who are so bad at the game that they seriously claim that this specific weapon is required for those classes to be able to deal with ranged units.
Right now the game needs no nerfs, thank you.
“Yeah… i didnt do that.
I complained about players who are so bad at the game that they seriously claim that this specific weapon is required for those classes to be able to deal with ranged units…”
Try dealing with shooters with a staff. It can be done, but it’s not a good idea. Staffs are only good for horde clear or CC - and why would I use a staff for horde clear when I have a Mk V Force Sword? But keep playing flamer or whatever I’m sure a vet will be along shortly to help you
It’s mostly the damage shredder does and that’s mostly from pinning fire. It kills stuff (other than carapace) faster than bolter but doesn’t have it’s draw backs and this is just like a 9mm smg. In general I think there are too many ammo pickups on the map and reducing shredder’s damage alone would be enough.
You forgot about ascendant blaze and deflector.
Again.
Although i mentioned both of them, when i told you earlier, how psykers can deal with shooters.
“You forgot about ascendant blaze and deflector.
Again.”
This is pure Malice/Herecy stuff right here
Deflector is a waste of time, not to mention blessing and feats. Why block bullets when you could suppress/kill the shooters?
AC can kill shooters on Damnation on a staff build if you have 6 warp charges - which is far from optimal on most builds and then you can only do it once every 30 seconds, unless you happened to use your ult for one of the many other reasons you would need to use your ult
Both of those are silly wastes of time compared to just bringing a good ranged weapon
I’ve gotten stopped by gunners during my ult plenty of times. I don’t do it any more. I just shoot them instead. Why rush in when I can just shoot them in the face where the rest of my team is?
While I think Deflector is a little overhyped (practically, I think there are better options out there), Ascendent Blaze is really not “malice/heresy stuff” being able to set alight and put away a group or two of shooters is quite significant on Damnation. Its not a braindead move, there are factors that have to be weighed in but being able to just make a bunch of foes go away and put your attention somewhere else is actually quite huge in a pinch, especially if you aren’t relying on using just an Auto-Shredder to get you out of nasty situations.