More criticism of veteran loot changes. Please Fatshark

Vermintide 2 Vermintide 2 - Feedback
#1

So on reddit today there’s a post from a guy who got 3 reds from one General’s Vault, and another from a guy who says he’s got 5 reds from champions chests in 20 hours of play since 1.05 went live.

Meanwhile I haven’t received a single red since before 1.04 after some 150 hours of play (Granted I haven’t played 1.05 that much but I’ve certainly played at least 20 hours and gotten a good mix of champion and legend boxes).

This particularly highlights the fundamental problem with your approach to end game loot. It doesn’t matter that you “massively increased drop rate” if the drop rate is still just a fixed RNG function. Unlucky people will continue to get no veterans but lucky people will get a few more veterans on top of their already absurd pulls.

Right now I’m personally averaging 1 red item every 100 hours or so (and 1 hat every 100 commendation chests). That is so absurdly indefensible to the point of being pathetic. 3 of the reds I have aren’t even meaningful since 2 are duplicates and I don’t even use the one red weapon I have.

The wild lack of meaningful rewards, along with the various game-ending bugs and difficulty spikes leave me with no real incentive to grind the game with randoms. And the team of friends I regularly play with and can trust to be competent have already started moving on to other games, a few even went back to Vermintide 1, so I have drastically reduced my play time. Past few nights when I did log on I’ve even seen it take a few minutes to fill up a random quickplay match. Granted this was pretty late at night, but just a week ago quickplay would fill up instant 24/7. This suggests to me (along with my 100+ friends list with only a handfull still logging on to v2 any given day) that player count is rapidly diminishing.

Your house is on fire, Fatshark, and you need to do something soon.

Again, I’m not asking for free reds or welfare reds and not even asking for the return of the bounty board, (which I kinda dislike anyway because in V1 it let people grind Easy - difficulty keys and still acquire reds via contracts, diminishing their value as a representation of the owner’s personal skill). I’m just asking you to remove that variance so that the unlucky and very lucky players alike will all personally experience the same rate of veteran item acquisition as the average player does.

4 Likes
Loot , frustration designed
70 urgent changes this game needs. Reasoning included
#2

Don’t believe reddit. It is full of liars. /endthread

Also, if you do believe reddit, then I have a bridge to sell you.

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#3

this paragraph is a total paradox. you cannot remove the variance of RNG and at the same time deny the introduction of a system that allows reward for time. you are asking to make the rate of veteran item acquisition constant, but don’t want a system that does exactly that.

na they’re not on fire, and they have been doing something.

the patch has been out for 7 days = 168 hours. i assume you have been playing 24/7 since the patch came out, and you can’t get a basic average of dividing by 2 units from your 100 hour sample size. you’re exaggerating a lot here. you are also ranting that you HAVE reds and duplicates but they don’t have a place in your build. that’s another debate but you are adding it to the main argument.

in my small group of 5 people that rotate and play for about 3 hours almost every night since the patch hit, we’ve gotten about 7 reds among us, as opposed to almost nothing before the patch. in our opinion there’s definitely a difference, but as always it could just be lady luck smiling upon us.

anyway, i’m in favour of adding the contract and bounties board back. i like the idea of people coming back everyday to do their dailies and slowly work towards a red item (when the reward pops up). i feel it will alleviate alot of frustration over the RNG system.

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#4

That’s a really bizarre argument. I’m not against A system that allows reward for time. I’m against the SPECIFIC Bounty Board system I mentioned that allowed players in V1 to acquire reds by doing the daily easy-level mission to collect their keys for red item contracts without ever stepping foot in nightmare/cata. If a V2 Bounty Board wouldn’t let you acquire keys for reds from recruit/veteran I’d be fine with it.

But what I’d recommend for a simple quick fix is to just give the player a red every 60 legend chests or whatever number you want to pull out ya butt.

I haven’t been playing 24/7, not much v2 at all since the last patch, mostly because many of my friends have moved on/back to v1. What I said is that of ALL the reds I’ve gotten since the game was released I’ve gotten 1 per 100 hours on average. I haven’t gotten any reds from 1.04 or from 1.05. But one dude got 3 from one chest and another claims to have gotten 5 reds in 20 hours and I don’t doubt him because that’s how RNG works, some people get none, some get lots, and the rest get the average. Distributing end game loot on such a basic RNG function is really just an ancient and outdated and lazy way to design your game. I can’t even think of any game dev doing this sort of thing on recent titles

Fatshark even had a better system in V1, though making reds accessible via easy missions cheapened the prestige of having reds. I assume the lack of a more robust endgame loot system at this point is maybe just because they’re planning on selling us a new version of Bounty Board with a DLC, which is pretty crappy imo.

in my small group of 5 people that rotate and play for about 3 hours almost every night since the patch hit, we’ve gotten about 7 reds among us, as opposed to almost nothing before the patch. in our opinion there’s definitely a difference, but as always it could just be lady luck smiling upon us.

I’m definitely not saying reds don’t drop, I’ve seen them drop in my groups too, I’m saying just that like before, they don’t drop for unlucky people. It doesn’t matter if Fatshark doubles the RNG change again, there will still be unlucky people who don’t open any - that’s just how statistics work; if there is a 5% chance of opening a red, that doesn’t apply to YOU AS AN INDIVIDUAL, that applies to the WHOLE POPULATION of chests opened by all players. You could increase the drop rate to 50% and you’d still have dudes who open no reds, and you’d have dudes who opened a red every chest, while the rest would get a red every other chest or so and that would average out to 50%.

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#5

Yeah there are liars everywhere but there’s really no reason not to believe them. Even if they are lying there are enough people playing this game that it is a statistical certainty that some people out there have opened that many reds, just like it is a certainty there are more people like me who have only opened a few after hundreds and hundreds of hours of champ/legend runs. In fact it is a certainty there are a decent number of people who haven’t opened any reds at all and never will even after a thousand hours or more of playtime, because that’s how rng works.

That 5% drop rate isn’t for YOU PERSONALLY, it is for THE ENTIRE POPULATION, hundreds of thousands of players. And for every person who is lucky enough to get a drop rate above 5% there are people getting drop rates below 5%, even 0%

Think of it like flipping a coin. You have a 50% chance of flipping it to heads, but you aren’t necessarily guaranteed to land on heads every other flip or even half your flip. You could flip a coin 100 times and get tails every single time; the odds of this happening are very small, but when you have a million players flipping coins 100 times each, SOME of them are going to get nothing but tails while some will get nothing but heads.

#6

Oh please, your hyperbole is ridiculous and only serves to make people disregard your post. Based on all of my friends who play and the majority of randos I get in quickplay games, it seems most people play for the fun and amazing gameplay and reds/cosmetics are a nice bonus. Yes, they should do something about this RNG business (like the contract board as you suggested), but this is far from game breaking.

PS: I’m about 130 hours in and not a single red or cosmetic so far, and don’t give a s*** either way. Game is still fun as hell.

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#7

I really hate loot boxes! It feels like FS wanted to charge for loot boxes but the whole loot box scam was put on blast by Jim Sterling and now FS are back peddling and instead of making a better way to get veteran items we get stuck with this rng bullshit why should i get items that arent even 300pl on 10 legendary gens/emperors on a lvl 30+ char with 600pl!? seriously getting items that are 296pl to 298pl wtf… meanwhile people get 3 reds in 1 gen box on legend?

#8

it’s not different from v1 systems where you roll some dice to get an item from a pile. it’s just packaged differently.

the only difference is they don’t show you the pile this time around, and u get 3 items instead of 1.

at it’s core, it’s still RNG. and hopefully they have something in the works to cause less frustration.

#9

LOL another famous kruber “gimme gimme” post

1 Like
#10

I’ve said the same thing in 2 or 3 other posts. Flat random % gear drops will ALWAYS screw over a portion of the population if the population is big enough. Just make it so whenever you don’t get a red you increase your chance of getting a red by a small variable amount. That way you will eventually get one even if you are very unlucky. Not super hard. No reason to “hand out reds” or “make ppl grind for thousands of hours”. There is an easy happy medium here. Hopefully they will address it appropriately soon.

Also, yesterday my friend got 2 reds from one champion chest…they were both picks XD XD.

#11

Dunno. If you cant by them with real money a lot of people really love RNG loot boxes. They doesnt make sense only when you can buy them.

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