I mean even polls like this are pretty difficult to get a full read. This isn’t really a topic that can be fully boiled down into pure numbers.
EG: I voted for disagreeing with their mod policy overall, but that’s also not the same as being against mods nor does it mean I think there’s necessarily a good solution considering the (apparent) size of their team.
Also other things that are going to vary such as the difficulty people play on, their motivations for playing in the first place (IE: “Because it’s 40k” vs “Because I want loot” vs “Because I want a challenge”, etc.) There’s going to be a pretty stark difference between Johnny Nothumbs struggling on sedition at level 30 and Sweatlord McWannabe who only plays auric but still struggles at level 957.
Do I think it’s a huge major issue that needs fixing immediately? No, not really. Do I think their policy kinda sucks and that taking the attitude of “It’s PvE, it doesn’t matter what you do” is really flawed? Yes.
Best if Fatshark have no involvement since they don’t do anything other than recolor cosmetics. Never see mods ruining runs only OP base game things like smite and plasma.
I understand this, and rest assured that I think the same.
At the end, this is Fatshark that decides, and I respect that.
I have said it a lot of times, but when you’re not happy with a game, you can make a pause or even switch to an other game. If mods would be removed from this game, or limited to few, I would be upset but I would respect this.
Then I would leave this game for sure. But, no reason to have disputes for a game.
You’re right about the goal of this thread. And you’re perfectly fine to have your own opinions.
I just wanted to point that their policy is clear. And that there is 18 pages of mods and 20 mods per page (so estimation of 360 mods on Nexus).
Why would they announce each time a mod is released that this mod is accepted?
As it was said, devs are on modders discord and even help to build these mods (they help for the coding by answering questions).
So, what only matters is the list of non authorized mods. Actually there is no such list. I think that this would be interesting to have such list.
But, as what is considered by fatshark as breaking the rules is removed from Nexus really fast, you can consider that what is on Nexus for more than 1 week is accepted by Fatshark.
However, new released mods could break the rules (or not be accepted by Fatshark).
Sidenotes:
you can freely join modders discord
by example, a dev answered to the mod author of weapon customization few days ago…
I have included every solutions that have been proposed, discussed or sometimes that I talked with a forum user.
I have asked several times to the “anti modders” what they propose. I have never got any answer.
I did not include the scenarii of someone that ask for no control at all (so that even the current policy would be too restrictive). This is true, cause nobody had suggested that until this thread.
I really tried to be as neutral as I could. I tried also to ask short questions.
About the examples to categorize, as pointed by @Badwin , everything is subjective. So I added examples. But I could not quote all mods that would be in such category.
The goal is not to know what each user of this forum would put in these categories, but to draw a large picture that can help the community (and Fatshark also).
As an example the formulation “I am fine with a lot of mods but any mod that allows a player to do something that cannot be done by an human should be removed” come from the discussion with @gpkgpk.
The formulation “Mods should be restricted to Morningstar and none of them should impact missions” comes from a private discussion. Etc.
It will always default to “well it’s on Nexus so…checkmate” rather than taking the (obscure) Discord Dev posts at face value about their (FS) involvement or willingness to get involved, and the whole “self-policing” part is swept under the rug entirely.
Those Discord posts are ignored for the most part, “FS never said that!”, even when those posts are linked, pasted and screenshotted.
There’s a Discord-born narrative in place, accepted by some, and any further clarification by FS might put that at risk, ed: so they attempt to shut down dissent.
P.S. Posting valuable info in a less visible sub-discord is not really helpful, be it FS dev posts regarding modding policy, Lua heap limit switches or the fix (before hotfix) for the stalling issue they had in June due to accidentally leaving in a switch that did Lua state dumps.
The modding Discord is where the creators/maintainers of the mod framework and the other modders (who actually care about helping, or just interacting with, one another) are. Lopus works with the modders on various tasks (like answering some questions or providing insights on improving performance), and since Discord is where the modders are, that’s where the discussion takes place.
~smoke and ~mirrors
EDIT: also, trying to paint the argument that “well it’s on Nexus, and has been on Nexus, and we have a clear modding policy, and an FS dev reiterated their unchanged position on mods months ago and again 2 weeks ago, oh and all these things are happening in the reality we all live in, so maybe we can just trust what’s obviously the case is the case” as a cop out is…a poor counterargument.
The questions seem geared towards more restrictions on modding.
I am adding my 2cent into the social engineering slot machine and making my tiny rat voice heard - I am glad Fatshark moved away from mod “sanctioning” and has a trusting stance.
Largely, this seems to be respected by the modding and the player community.
They treat us with intellectual integrity and we treat them that way back. It’s a rare sight these days and I’m glad it is that way.
As for people claiming that mod x or mod y is hax - To me these people seem to be sour grapes. People who don’t want to or can’t mod (console; lacking knowledge how to) and they want to force their way on everyone. They seem to be a vocal minority and it’d be best to not entertain their notions.
Just because some people are seemingly lacking a backbone, moral center or ethics, and say things along the lines of “a cheat isn’t a cheat if you’re not aware of it” or “PvE so who cares” (and then proceed to care about PvE in other matters), doesn’t mean they are correct in saying those things.
Haven’t really seen any of these people here, care to list them?
A cheat isn’t a cheat I care about if it has such a minimal effect that I can’t even detect its use. And yes, busted OP/unbalanced crap is no fun to play with. There are no busted OP mods. That’s why you don’t see threads about mods ruining anyone’s matches, and instead you see threads about plasma vets and knife zealots and smite psykers.
It’s hilarious to assert that someone lacks morals, ethics and a backbone because they disagree with you on the severity of this issue or the (un)acceptability of the mods publicly available on Nexus. Peak internet stuff right there.
I think the Havoc announcement makes this topic a little interesting. I’m not sure if there’ll be leaderboards or not, but if there are, there will now be competition and as such cheaters will win that competition, or at least have a very unfair advantage.
For a little background info here, I won a tobii eye tracker from Fatshark back in Vermintide. There was an event that recorded speedrun leaderboards and rewarded the top team. I didn’t actually do anything, I just pugged and my pug happened to have a hacker in it that ended the game near instantly. So our team won that day. (Funny that Fatshark didn’t confirm or even look at the obviously cheated time, but hey, free stuff)
While I’m sure that extent of hacking will not be possible in Darktide, it still adds unfairness to competition. Just something I wanted to throw out there.
Hacking is cheating… and this suffers no debate.
Exploits can be debated. My opinion is that it is a sort of “legal cheat”. It means that it should be fixed, but you can’t blame human nature… ALT+F4 is in this category.
Mods that help a player can be debated. And here it is even what you could point as an inacceptable mod:
Do we consider that something that can’t be replicated by an human so precisely is a cheat? If no, what is the limit?
Does the mods has to give you a big advantage or do we consider it as a cheat even if the advantage is so tiny that it is not noticeable?
De we consider mods that gives you consider that give an advantage as a cheat?
Do we include mods that gives you informations that you can’t see in the vanilla game?
And what about quality mods that permits you to play better but that are not possible with vanilla game? by example, I use a mod that permits me to not press during the entire mission the sprint key. I could not play if I had not such mod (or script). Do we consider it as useful for players with tendinosis, or even without, or is it a cheat?
That’s the current topic of this thread.
Users can voice their opinion. I just hope that we can, each others, respect ourselves. And if several choose to not participate, that’s also their right.
The idea is here to get a photo of the forum community. I think that the forum community is not the same as steam or reddit. Or even players that won’t go on such platform. But we are the reflect of the guys enough passionate by the game to buy their cosmetics. Yes we do…
We are the reflect of their all days customers.
This can also help in their perception of the community (seen as large as it is, so here + steam etc.) opinion about this topic.
EDIT: I hope they won’t be any competition. I don’t like this idea in this cooperation game. We are, this is my opinion, not enough in the cooperation. Let’s not amplify this sort of behavior.
I’d bet money there won’t be a leaderboard, especially since you can jump from level 1 to 40 by joining a friend. What could a leaderboard even signify in that case?
At any rate, a “very unfair advantage” is still a hell of a stretch to me…but if mods are allowed in the game by FS policy, then any advantage they impart can only be considered allowed until FS says otherwise.
Maybe there’d be a shred of truth to what you say, if this game had cheat mods.
Alas it doesn’t. Unless you consider uncovering the hidden symbols in a mini “mini-game” that poses 0 challenge cheating. Or that accessibility mod showcasing how many specials are on the field (which otherwise you can hear, tag and see regardless).
The one mod actually breaching Fatshark policy is the ridiculous naked mod, but even that isn’t banned - Just discouraged from sharing. So clearly nothing is being disrupted, since Fatshark hasn’t made a stance against any mods.
Dunno what you want to hear from me. I don’t keep a ledger on who says what, because it’s not really my business and I also don’t care. You’re the one with the dawri avatar. You tell me, keeper of grudges.
You see the occasional thread pop up where someone claims cheats on one of the three common subjects of debate:
Healthbar mod.
Special Enemy Tracker mod.
3rd Person mod.
And every time the claimant for this gets pretty much shut down by the comments. So pretty clear case in my opinion.
You can skip the entire grind of this new game mode? And there’s no point anyway since all meaningful rewards (cosmetics) don’t require it? Lame.
There are cosmetic rewards, but I don’t know how they’ll be rewarded. You might be able to just jump to 40 and get them if that’s all you’re after. Feels like being able to shortcut mastery with green items to me. Just an option for people who don’t care.
But really the 40 levels of increasing difficulty are meant to be the fun part. I’m very curious what 40 negative modifiers is gonna look like!
See therein lies the rub, the claim is that that there’s no advantage. And if there an advantage it’s minor so who cares. And if it’s a minor advantage also who cares because PvE.
There’s going to be a pretty stark difference between Johnny Nothumbs struggling on sedition at level 30 and Sweatlord McWannabe who only plays auric but still struggles at level 957.