Make Daemonhosts ect useful with this one simple trick

Have all boss creatures drop an item name it what you will but I’d keep it inline with the way blessings should work in lore so something like “Incense of the machine spirit”

Give it to Hadron and she can increase a single modifier to 100% and another to 90%. Further modifier increases can be done up to +5-10% of the current. Each incense would increase the modifier by 1%.

Is it Grindy? Oh yeah. Does it make you wanna fight Daemonhosts and reward you? Oh yeah.


You could even tier the incense based on the mission difficulty and the modifiers with damnation the only way to get 100% and Hearsay the only way to get 90%. You’d have to play the missions before to rank it up.

80-89% T3 missions
90-95% T4 missions
96-100% T5 missions.

Edit 2:

Since a bit of feedback has been gathered I think we should be changing it too:,

T4 grants 80-90%
T5 91-100%

A Daemonhost encounter is only rewarded if the host hasn’t died, killing the host rewards no drop.


I like the idea based on the systems they have in place currently… but why do we have to negotiate with everything being so RNG+Grind based? Why can’t we just enjoy the game as opposed to slog through these horrible systems to get gear to try to improve your map runs, as opposed to just… enjoying the map runs?


T3 is way too easy and shouldn´t even be taken into account when we talk about “endgame”, while damnation gets already, more or less, outscaled with 80% weapons.

While i want something like that to unlock slots or so, i don´t think it´s a good thing to make it based on random encounters like bosses. They´re easy done anyway, also Deamonhosts… in that case we´ll probably even see a Shield-Ogryn meta just for the case…

Deamonhosts should become usual bosses like the beast and ogryns.
And about your idea, i would like to see a new more challenging gamemode with solid drops. T4 in this gamemode could make sure, that you can upgrade any bars of your weapon to 80%, t5 up to 90% and then we need a 6th difficulty making it up to hundred, so those extra 20% on bars and t4 blessings have a real purpose.

But why? Why is this all RNG / Percentage based? Why do we have to have to grind this out? We need to add a difficulty to get guaranteed tiers of weapons? What about having a new difficulty… just for the sake of the difficulty?

It´s called progress and setting a GUARANTEED drop to upgrade e.g. a bad rolled weapon with great blessings, or unlock the 2nd blessing slot on a great rolled weapon would be a great thing and incentive to compete with the endgame.
Bring it on a new gamemode like raids / deep dive, whatever, which could possibly to go through the complete zones, and kill a real endboss which drops it, and gg.

I would like to see a new difficulty just for being there. But i can also see that a decent progression-system as an endgame will attract a lot of players and also helps those hunting for godrolls.
But yes, it should be somewhat based on higher difficulties, otherwise poeple will farm the lower ones all day long for fast progress. This would pretty much break the whole purpose of the game and stats aswell, which is beating higher difficulties.

I don´t even see the need to go to 100%… but some material-drops could help to play around the RNG like as i´ve said, unlock slots and as OP said, helps to get more percentages out of weapons aka godrolls (80%).

Dunno what´s wrong with some grind… the whole gameloop is rinse and repeat anyway. And poeple can beat the game / have fun without perfect gear aswell. (As it is right now.)

I mean assassination missions exist, which are also bosses. That would remove the RNG element slightly. To me this is a logical way to make players earn that 20% they want.

Thanks for explaining your interpretation of ‘progression.’ My point, which you so casually missed, is that these RNG systems are arbitrary and not needed. While you’re clearly in the minority that likes the inflated RNG systems, the rest of us want to play a fun game without all these other systems being in the way. But, instead, RNG systems are being nickle-and-dimed to presumably not lose face by eliminating them altogether, and the gameplay is still not what it should be.

Progress is leveling up your character. End game should be based on ability, not weapons. But, since FS decided to put a million perks and blessings to synergize with character talents, you’d think it would be similar to Vermintide in that you can [much more] easily change your weapons to fit a build, not hope that you get a weapon with a blessing of the same type that will fit, along with all the other stats. So, it makes it much more dependent on gear, gear in which is dependent on RNG, and RNG is dependent on time.

Hell, even the currencies aren’t shared between characters.

What you’re suggesting is an alternate time-sink. What I’m suggesting is why inflate it at all in the first place?

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I like this the main idea here is that you’d need to run each level multiple times, which sort of reinforces how you should play, and gives you experience. Imo we should never encourage a blind play to get better gear or materials. Doing this somewhat forces you to play T3 to get up to the point T4 does something and then T5 does something after that.

I do agree with a 100% drop rate boss, but it should be donenina raid style setting, eg clear the mission final boss has mechanics and will always drop a weapon based on the pool of weapons you’ve selected before the mission starts. Your overall performance would dictate what quality it is

Just assumptions.

The whole endgame… no, the whole game IS ABOUT SKILL. Vermintide 2 was more about stats like heropower, but it´s less of a thing here. You can beat damnation with a green weapon, just because you can.
And yes, endgame can be designed about loot and loot-progression in kind of stats as it is in dozens of games out there aka Lootshooter, MMORPG´s, ARPG´s, etc…

Whilst I agree with you, RNG systems can suck, the whole point here is for you to earn a balance here. Got a weapon that dropped that doesn’t have perfect modifiers? Fix it yourself.

You’ve most likely fought enough bosses to easily fix a stat or two by the time you’ve got blessings, which rewards players time. We already have to defeat bosses as part of missions, rewarding that isn’t another grind but a benefit.

In other words reward players for the time spent. It’s very clear other difficulties could be added in future for T5 blessings and unique blessings which mix and match others for the diehards giving the elite players that bit of power would be amazing imo.

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So, not an assumption - check the Steam reviews.

The whole end game is not just about skill - it’s obviously gear dependent as well. VT2 is much more about skill; especially with the introduction of the Chaos Wastes, it’s much more about the type of weapons you’re comfortable with, not hero power.

And, to your point of end-game can be just like dozens of games out there aka “lootshooters, MMORPGS, ARPGs, etc.” – this is literally none of those things. It’s a coop horde shooter. It’s, very literally, not one of the types of games you’re referencing.

I totally agree with what you’re getting at, and not arguing the concept whatsoever. My point here is simply that this game has so much garnish (e.g. having to run around an empty hub with people that aren’t on your team, multiple shops, multiple currencies, currencies not shared, timed shop refreshes, limited maps, map time refreshes, modifier time refreshes, etc. etc. etc.) and very little in terms of the gameplay itself – There are very few maps, 4 types of characters, and bosses (slugs and plague ogryn) are trivial to kill.

What I’m driving at is more of creating more meat in the game; more maps, characters, etc., and leave the weapon/gear agency to us. Why do all these inflated systems need to exist in the first place?

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The steam reviews say a lot of things and those doesn´t even represent the majority of the playerbase anyway.
I won´t go another time through all of this… that dozens of games run around RNG and gear-progression proofs the point, that there are dozens of players out there liking it.
And as Columbus said, this would be an actual benefit to the system.

Skill is 100 times more relevant than gear. I cleared my first T4 missions on level 10, the highest level of the randoms has been 18 or 19. No chance we had the gear other poeple expect to beat such encounters.
Also Choas wastes works completely different then the normal leveling and playing maps in comparison. This is no argument.

Just because it´s a horde-shooter, doesn´t mean that it can´t have a decent endgame. It´s just you saying so. That we´ve dozens of different games these days has become a thing because new devs have been like “Ok, i don´t want to follow the old categories.”
Just look at your chaos wastes mode or how popular roguelikes / -lites has become these days and they pretty much rely on tons of RNG that decides about win / loss.

EDIT: If you think otherwise, doesn´t mean that my points are not valid and that the system here can´t be improved into some sort of endgame.
Now reply if you want, but i won´t answer… there have been enough discussions about it.

See i personally thinks a system like this would leave the gear up to us. You could bring anything to a reasonable power increase with time, but rather than grinding missions for dockets to hope you get that god rolled 380 you could fix that yourself if you got close.

I agree we need more maps and weapons, but giving a bit of gear for players to chase is a good way to keep us busy.


We all want time valued, adding value to bosses isn’t going to diminish the value of the time spent and only increase the value of time spent, making rng a lot less of a kick in the teeth.

Also thanks for the feedback hopefully if they listen or even see this post we might get something done. Most likely not but you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take.

I think your earlier points are fully valid, T4 might be a better starting point, I’d probably include assassination missions as bosses to just even things out, as that way you can 100% nail a drop.

You say a lot of things and you also don’t represent a majority of the playerbase. Oops.

Skill certainly helps, but is in no way ‘more relevant’. Take, for instance, a preacher. What if I want to make a bleed build? Sure, I can get a super low chance of getting bleed based on the character talents, but what I really need to make it viable is a weapon with a T4 bleed blessing, maybe even both my weapons if I really want to lean into it. No amount of ‘skill’ gives me those added benefits, which are obviously incredibly helpful in Damnation.

As for end-game, your idea of ‘decent’ end game is based on these other gametypes that you referenced, but then lambast me for suggesting that this game, which is not those, can’t therefore be more like them? Well to turn it right back around, why can’t it maintain what it set out to be? Why would it therefore change what it is based on its pedigree as well as self-created hype when announced years ago?

I’m not suggesting that your points aren’t valid in some way, but it’s clear that you’re arguing just to argue as opposed to proving a viable point, and based all of it on game systems that this game was not meant to have.

I think an easier system with less risk of interfering with what they have planed would be to have boss drop dimantine on death it wouldn’t be as interesting but as other have said, boss aren’t that rare or powerfull. Also deamon host are designed to be avoided, like the witch from L4D. Making it worth the fight would go against it.

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Totally get what you’re saying, but my argument isn’t about adding value to bosses (I agree completely the bosses are lackluster at best and are minor speedbumps normally). Instead, it’s about the systems that are “keeping me busy” – that’s not what I want from a video game. I want to have fun, and feel like I’m achieving something by doing it (“oh that was a solid run” or “I beat that level” etc.), not by trying to manipulate a system to get the highest change of a return on something I may want/need. I think the system itself is unnecessary - just give us the steering wheel, I’m not sure why it has to be so convoluted.

Because the steering wheel simple doesn’t work in this case, nor does it work in general when gaming. There always is a ‘delay tactic/keeping you busy tactic.’ leveling Is that, money in games is that, if we had the wheel you’d need to remove currency drops, and have use just apply what we wanted to the weapon.

You state you wanted to achieve something this would give tangible proof you are doing that. It might not be the perfect method, nor might it be what you envisioned, but for the majority of the players already fighting rng I think it would help immensely. Whilst you may not want to be kept busy the fact is we can consume content faster than it is made so we need to be kept busy. If your enjoyment isn’t in the core “loop” of a game you will most likely drop it.

Of course it could be made much easier. Imo this was a rough idea that could use polish, but imo dropping the Dia isn’t a good fix either. Simply put there’s never a shortage of that stuff. Infact it’s the opposite, I have too damn much and I’m sure most other players do too.

And yeah it’s meant to be avoided, but again this is for all bosses, I definitely think there is a middle ground to please both sides here.