Longbow nerf? Waystalker kinda pointless? :c

So I don’t really understand the nerf to the Longbow ammo

I get they want to reduce the “range meta” or whatever but it feels like a strange thing to do when Waystalker is already feeling like Shade with how pointless they are compared to Handmaiden

The draw of Waystalker was always the ranged effect, her melee wasn’t anything special
Shade has always been kinda off; the whole backstab thing, while a nice idea, is hard to find use in a horde game

But now with the nerf to Longbow I feel like it’s hard to really justify picking up either Waystalker or Shade when Handmaiden has both option of range with her level 5 talent of more Ammo, and her level 10 talent of increasing hero power but losing attack speed.

It just seems like a nerf that doesn’t really acomplish anything for the elf but make Handmaiden and even more powerful pick than she already was.

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WS/Shade pointless compared to Handmaiden? In what? A solo speed-run?

WS is a living meat-grinder in melee and also gets more ammo and limitless ammo regen. The change had basically no effect on her ranged game. Shade still serves as an effective assassin. Handmaiden is the only one with an ult that only helps the party in extremely specific situations.

Once there is an equal amount of “OMG this class is terrible compared to this other class” and “OMG this class is the best all other classes are useless” then you know you have a balanced meta.

This is a good step.

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Handmaiden does more melee damage than Waystalker; and more Range Damage than Shade

Waystalker gets 2 more ammo than Handmaiden; and you can still get ammo recovery from orange/ red traits

Sure you could run Shade, but I mean BH and Pyromancer are still super powerful at what they do and can do the same thing as the Shade but at a safe distance.

That’s the problem I have, they CAN do this or CAN do that, but Handmaiden is just as good overall comparative with the bonus of the level 25 talent being able to save runs as well

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I agree but in this case I think a lot of people have this misconception with Handmaiden in that they think “I’m alive while everyone else is dead = handmaiden is stronger” when it really means “no one would be dead if either a WS/Shade ult was in play and the only reason the handmaiden is even alive is because they have an entirely self-serving kit that lets them run around the entire level forever, unmolested.”

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WTF! Another nerf to WS and Huntsman… while, Pyro and BH, still have infinite ammunitions.

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Shade OHKOs Rot Helms and WS instagibs specials and a ton of trash very frequently with her special. The ults make a huge difference. Handmaiden’s ult only lets her live when she should have died and waste 1-2minutes training 12 rot helms to revive the dead party for them to be instantly killed because they lack the aforementioned ability to perma-dodge/flee from an infinite number of enemies. WS sacrifices critical spike damage to be unkillable. She’s great at speed running but extremely frustrating to see in a team comp.

I would rather have literally any other class in my team except maybe slayer.

Knocking up to 30 infantry while getting a few seconds of free melee attacks in a short CD. So bad.

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I don’t think this hurts waystalker that badly. She has plenty of ammo regen options between her level 15 and 25 skills, as well as putting scrounger on her bow. That said, it seems like a wholly unnecessary nerf, which hurts Huntsman much harder than it does Waystalker.

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Sure, but infantry is trash anyways that every job can handle. WS/Shade can melee shred them just fine without dampening the ability to instantly kill the things that actually matter.

Pyromancer can do the exact same thing as Shade/ Waystalker but on just one class

And even still; if the run is a wash at least the Handmaiden can cheeze long enough to either outright finish the map, or get far enough for extra xp

But a lot of the time, the run wouldn’t be a wash if there was a WS deleting specials instead of a handmaiden or a Shade deleting critical heavies and wave-shredding. Never, in hundreds of hours, have I thought to myself, “oh boy, good thing that HM was there to deal with things or we might not have pulled through.” It’s generally, “Oh look… the specials that would have been instantly dead if we had a WS caused problems so the HM pre-emptively fled and now we have to wait several minutes for this debacle to end while she trains mobs around pointlessly.” Every handmaiden player I’ve ever seen plays it the exact same way, because that’s really the only way you -can- play it because that’s her entire kit.

Do people actually care about xp?

What about huntsman longbow going from 41 arrow to 30?

That’s kinda a big deal considering his lolheadshot ammo replenishment is utter trash. Personally, I hate his entire kit. His crit debuff has potential but his ult is lackluster and most of his talents feel underwhelming.

I guess they really want to make sure players use Scrounger and really go for those headshots.

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Well this was before the nerfs to Waystalkers best option to deal with specials

Before it would make sense and I would have agreed with you fully

But now I can just go Handmaiden with a Pyromancer and not have to even worry. With my setup I can 1 shot Stormvermin in the Body as Handmaiden but can’t as Waystalker because of that level 10 talent Handmaiden has.

Before it was whatever on Waystalker because I knew if I missed the headshot I had enough ammo for the rest of the fight to not really have to worry too much and could gain it back before the next fight.

Now I just don’t really see the point of Waystalker when Pyromancer and Bounty Hunter exist and how strong the Handmaiden can be

Least me and my pals care about xp >w> Like those commendation chest greens for the dust

That makes sense. I seem to get very few greens in my commendations.

I understand your body shot consideration but still feel like ammo isn’t an issue on WS and that her ult lends her greater value overall. I used to use Scrounger + either boosted/team regen but have recently switched to ammo regen and I basically never run out. I have to force myself to rapid fire sometimes for the lil DPS boost and so the ammo regen is actually procing and not going wasted, and I only put my bow away in situations where going melee is optimal DPS. I haven’t had a chance to test this out yet but my instincts tell me the reduced ammo won’t make a difference on WS with any of her ammo replenishment options. The impression I have is that I just won’t be able to rapid fire my whole nut into a bosses face, which tbh felt unnatural anyways.

All this being said, I ackowledge that optimal WS play is twitchier and to max your output you have to be able to land headshots. Some days I’m on fire but if I’m tired or out of it I definitely appreciate that being able to down SV with the body shot would be more convenient.

Let me get to the meat of the issue here. What do you think needs to change?

Are You saying they need to buff Waystalker to allow her to deal more comparable damage to the others without the need of head Shots?

Cause as far as i know you pretty much have unlimited ammo on her as is anyways.

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Regarding HM

Yup, I’m sad to hear I get a smaller quiver, but if you become decent at landing headshots with scrounger his ammo was never a problem. Especially directional hoards, it’s just lobbing in the right direction and getting decent rng due to penetration. In addition I prefer to take the bonus 25% crit on following shot a previous headshot for DPS ( which also synergizes with scrounger), but +2 on headshot may look more reliable now that we have a whopping 25% less ammo. I’ll still stand by +25 percent crit as it’s just too good for Legend. I just think I might run out of ammo for once, which might not be a bad thing. Before I would only ever run out maybe 1 in 8 games. It’s a sad day for HM. Dwarf Ranger might actually serve a purpose in certain comps now.

I think being forced to not take the 25% debuff on crit is a really big deal on an already struggling DPS. Hunter is a class that could use some love and attention in general.

Ranger Veteran is already hella solid in any comp. Unlimited bombs, short-mid range special deletion, AoE “stun,” and the ability to meaningfully reach and revive a downed party. While Handmaiden has to bring the whole train to the person being revived, instantly killing them, RV has a very healthy distance buffer when he does it and can more reasonably widdle things down as he goes so safe recovery is possible.

I’m actually pretty flabbergasted they’d do anything to hurt hunter, or Kruber in general tbh. He’s so limited right now.

I don’t think this nerf hits Waystalker at all. Feels like a significant nerf to Handmaidens, though. Have less and less of a reason to use HM, so I guess it’s good I’ve been practicing my melee on WS.

Edit: For the record, was a Handmaiden (30+something) main. Longbow gives the class the utility it needs to pick off a far-away special while the rest of your team is focusing an armored target or something.

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