Longbow nerf? Waystalker kinda pointless? :c

They never needed to touch the ammo on the longbow

Hagbane and Swiftbow have their uses and playstyles while Longbow was a general all rounder that even if you weren’t the best never felt like you were being too punished for it.

Waystalker was the weakest of the 3 elf specs for melee; Handmaiden has talents to increase her power, and Shade has the whole Shade deal.

So making Waystalker worse at range is weird when she wasn’t even that great in a world with Pyromancer and Bounty Hunter (And do a distance Huntsman as well)

That’s the thing; as Handmaiden you can use your range, and then melee and be just as powerful with both if things go fishy; Waystalker is way better at range since it has so few talents to compliment melee, but making it worse at range without anything really being added to melee is so weird.

I get people HATE the elf, but it just feels very lacking and being pushed into a specific set of hero classes to use as generalists rather than having dedicated classes

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If you use the level 5 talent to give you more ammo; the Handmaiden is only 2 ammo behind the waystalker

Mix that with the talent that increases hero power by 15% for attack speed and it doesn’t matter if you’re using ranged or melee, most things aren’t much trouble other than armour

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No regen.

No ammo regen though.

In most cases this should be OK; I only really recall running out of ammo on HM against some bosses (Stormfiend/Bile Troll) only ever in certain situations (e.g., after x/y/z special encounters). This has a bigger impact on Handmaiden’s viability in deeds, particularly those with Deprivation, however. Waystalker is just too superior in every way to ever consider HM for highlevel deed play.

Edit: A word.

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But WS still has unlimited ammo and Handmaiden has issues with the same things WS does, because the weapons are the same. While she does more “damage” in melee, it’s not actually “useful” damage unless it allows you to kill things in fewer hits, which generally isn’t the case. Both classes essentially blend trash mobs and unarmoured enemies but have to be careful or ranged attack SV, so the core difference in actual, practical performance is the overall kit. WS’s kit provides regen to herself/group or replenishes non-stop ammo and her ult kills a -lot- of enemies, including specials. HM’s kit, while preventing damage from being taken, doesn’t improve her DPS and the offensive aspects of her dash are overall pretty negligible when compared to the same character with the same weapons just thrashing away at the horde instead. The buff is good, but not good enough to compensate for the lack of the ability to instantly kill a dozen or so trash mobs at range or to kill multiple specials without LoS.

A lot of the things Handmaiden feels like it’s doing, it’s not actually doing or isn’t doing in a meaningful, tangible way. In a straight up DPS race for numbers against a horde with nothing but melee, the HM would beat the WS but in practical terms, that extra damage output isn’t really equating to meaningful results. Will take about the same number of hits. Once you incorporate ranged/ults, the WS can shred any horde at range with ease w/o running out of ammo and the ult just dominates the HM’s in every way. HM -feels- like or gives the impression it’s doing a lot, but it’s really not, especially since spike damage is extremely valuable in VT2.

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This, SO MUCH.

As a whole, Damage Dealt does not matter in Vermintide (contrary to what the end screen may make you believe). Handmaiden’s power boost isn’t helpful because it allows her to kill things more quickly (which I don’t think it does, as I don’t believe you hit any new breakpoints at 600 HP with it (other than maybe having more of an impact against bosses, which is admittedly one of HM’s weaknesses)), but instead it improves your cleave/stagger which compliments HM’s entire purpose of completely negating Hordes/roamers on her own.

For sure, Handmaiden should not be picking things off across the map and serving as a ranged class like WS, so if Fatshark saw that happening I can understand why they might see a reason to nerf the class. But I’ve never encountered a HM player like that and I’ve never done that myself, save for the occasional special now and again, usually at medium ranges (e.g., a packmaster as it turns toward the party or an Assassin as it leaps into the air). Removing or nerfing this utility she offers, while also allowing the game to exist in a state where Hordes don’t really matter at all due to the overabundance of AoE clear in other classes (Handmaiden is rarely the optimal choice in a team comp, I just use it `cause I find it fun), makes HM very underwhelming compared to her peers.

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Seems like a nonsensical change. If it was to combat ranged meta it has changed nothing.

Waystalker will actually be affected the least by this change while non ammo regen shade and handmaiden will be hit hardest, the 2 who didn’t need any ranged nerf.

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