Locks on blessings/perks aren't that fun

[Dumbledood]

I know there’s been a lot of feedback on this already, but since I’ve now got about 200 hours in Darktide, I can see where people are coming from.

So, after leveling one of my characters to 30 (+10 prestige levels), I decided to build a thunder hammer. Had about 500k credits saved on this character, and it took 400k of hammers in Brunt’s armory to find one with decent rolls at a fairly high level. I then spent however much of the crafting mats to get it to be fully buffed with blessings and perks.

But none of them are that good. Stamina, and sprint efficiency. Along with a couple of tier 3 blessings, neither of which I’d like really on my ideal hammer. So I can re-roll one of each to make it functional.

What I’m left with is an okay hammer. It’s not “trash” but to me there’s nothing all that great about it. After going on a heckin’ journey leveling the character, and getting 95% of the class’ penances done, I feel like I just wasted all my money on this character.

Given the amount I invested in this, there’s a reasonable expectation that to get another shot at a thunder hammer that I like, I’ll have to grind another 400k gold, which at the rate per mission, is 20 damnation runs. Assuming they’re successful, and assuming I don’t do ones that have additional rewards. Most likely I’d do some with mission modifiers, and lose some, but it’ll probably balance out. Maybe RNG will be kinder, maybe it won’t.

That’s just too much work, and it doesn’t feel rewarding.

[Ralendil]

@Dumbledood

it took 400k of hammers in Brunt’s armory to find one with decent rolls at a fairly high level.

First error. Never take something to Brunt’s armoury

@Dumbledood

What I’m left with is an okay hammer. It’s not “trash” but to me there’s nothing all that great about it.

This is what happens when you relies on Brunt’s armoury…

@Dumbledood

I’ll have to grind another 400k gold, which at the rate per mission, is 20 damnation runs.

NO. Don’t
Wait for a good (375+) thunder hammer in the shop (normal or Merk).

[FASAStampede]

THammer farm is one of the worst. Your pain is known to many.
Welcome to the club.

@brosgw - Memorialize this pal.

[freqlectic]

Atoma Prime is just a cash-cow for the emperor. They made all those former prisoners gambling addicts, force them out in the trenches to earn more currency and then let’s them spend it in the “Mourningstar Hotel and Casino” . Addicts will do almost anything for a fix. It’s shame, but it sounds like they’re losing you

OnT: I’m sorry you realized the frustration of the “progression” system.

[BFCInsomnia]

Ah so this is the method you were eluding to over here:

@Ralendil

I have my method, which is based on patience

You’re method is to not engage with the shops at all unless something worthwhile shows up… sounds an awful lot like “waiting to get lucky” to me (and likely not just me)

Maybe I’m not seeing something here so please correct me.

Let’s be real for a sec though: you’re advising to not engage with the systems unless it gives you something you want (aka get lucky).
Yet you say that the locks are not the issue:

@Ralendil

the locks aren’t the real problem

But you don’t engage in the systems that are defined by making you waste your resources due to the fact that the most vital aspects are influenced by the existens of said locks!

Your claims and your actions/advice don’t seem to align, hell they are contradicting each other.

Buying greys in bulk from the armory wouldn’t be such a bad idea if you were sure that once you got that 370+ grey with the correct distribution actually turned into what you wanted. What stops this from being a reality? Not the fact that they have RNG stats (it doesnt help but you would eventually get a 370+ with the right stats) but the fact that even once you have gotten that coveted 370+, it can still turn into shiny, expensive garbage because of its random rolls that you cannot change

As much as this is “good” advise, it doesn’t help the OP at all. Why?

For one: what if it’s his first lvl30 thunder hammer? Is he just supposed to run around with something he doesn’t wanna use because he didn’t get it the precice moment he leveled to 30?
It completely ignores the desire of the OP to make his Thunderhammer in that very instance of time + it also ignores the fact that he might have to wait MONTHS to finally see this item in any shop!

[brosgw]

@Ralendil

Wait for a good (375+) thunder hammer in the shop (normal or Merk).

I can agree this can be better than brunt’s but only if you got eagle eyes and filters on the browser extension and spending so many of your hours just waiting for it… which also sucks and feels like a disconnect if you can do nothing but wait.

There’s a disconnect from gameplay if the RNG is so bad you ignore some systems and the end game is camping a browser to login and buy what you want. And still not ever get perfect curios and weapons. Just have them tease you.

[brosgw]

@freqlectic

“Mourningstar Hotel and Casino” . Addicts will do almost anything for a fix. It’s shame, but it sounds like they’re losing you

I guess that will be what replaces “rejects”. Addicts.

[brosgw]

@FASAStampede

@brosgw - Memorialize this pal.

Thank you acolyte @FASAStampede, you are the eyes and arms of the lock breaking inquisition.

Welcome @Dumbledood and your thread.

Ps- It is dumb the drastic variance of blessing pools. Axes have 4 and force swords have 12. Some are much more rough to hunt for than others.

[Ralendil]

@BFCInsomnia

Let’s be real for a sec though: you’re advising to not engage with the systems unless it gives you something you want (aka get lucky).
Yet you say that the locks are not the issue:

Locks are not the issue for me… Brunt’s armoury is.
See the difference…

@BFCInsomnia

But you don’t engage in the systems that are defined by making you waste your resources due to the fact that the most vital aspects are influenced by the existens of said locks!

No, I don’t engage with the system cause I understand probabilities.
The chances to get what I need from Brunt’s armoury are too low. Chances to get what I want (generally a T4 blessing) from an item bought from a shop that has modifiers at 375+ is… really high.

If you want to loose time and resources, that’s your choice. Then don’t complain if you do everything needed to get frustration.

For info, this week I decided to craft Helbore MK III. I took the 3 Helbore MK III I had. 1 has been sold, the second has no respite T3 + falter T4, the third has surgical T4 + onslaught T4. So, I would not say that you need months to get what you want…

@brosgw

I can agree this can be better than brunt’s but only if you got eagle eyes and filters on the browser extension and spending so many of your hours just waiting for it… which also sucks and feels like a disconnect if you can do nothing but wait.

This is not better… this is sadly the solution.
That’s why Fatshark needs to address the current problem of crafting (which is not the locks). You spend millions and you could even never get a 375+ weapon.

[Reginald]

@Ralendil

First error. Never take something to Brunt’s armoury

This is how i got most of my best weapons.

[BFCInsomnia]

@Ralendil

Locks are not the issue for me

Locks are part of the issue and the by far easiest one to fix. The fact that you add “for me” is cute but you’re rather alone on that stance.

If the locks didn’t exist, brunts would be bad but not nearly as bad, certainly not “the issue”. If you flip it: if the brunts gave you only 380 items, the random stat distrubution but more importantly the locks would still f*ck you over. No matter which way you slice it, the locks get in the way and removing the locks improves the “brunts situation” more than improving brunts could ever hope to improve the “locks situation”.

@Ralendil

The chances to get what I need from Brunt’s armoury are too low.

Yeah that’s true. Another part of the problem.

@Ralendil

Chances to get what I want (generally a T4 blessing) from an item bought from a shop that has modifiers at 375+ is… really high.

“Really high”? In my extensive testing it seems to be at around the 10% to 15% mark. That’s not really high to me but to each their own.

@Ralendil

If you want to loose time and resources, that’s your choice. Then don’t complain if you do everything needed to get frustration.

I’m doing none of these things but nice try.

@Ralendil

For info, this week I decided to craft Helbore MK III. I took the 3 Helbore MK III I had. 1 has been sold, the second has no respite T3 + falter T4, the third has surgical T4 + onslaught T4. So, I would not say that you need months to get what you want…

This is a miniscule sample size and it doesn’t even look at all the data! How long did it take you to get the 3 MK3s to begin with? How long did the aquisition of the crafting mats take you? I could go on.

What timescale DO you suggest then? It’s certainly nothing below “days”, “weeks” isn’t really long enough either (dependig on standards ofc but since yours seem to be 375+ and correct blessings, weeks doesn’t cut it) and “years” is too long unless you’re actually after proper perfection… so what else but “months” is left? Nevermind the fact that it actually took me months to get the minimum of what I wanted on my Vet that has 290ish hours under his belt and my standards for gear were seemingly slightly lower than yours!

@Ralendil

You spend millions and you could even never get a 375+ weapon.

At least dockets are easy to come by! You spend so much more of other currencies in comparison, comparing the 2 isn’t even fair.

@Ralendil

I don’t engage with the system cause I understand probabilities.

You understand probabilities yeah? Then how is it that you say that the “belle-curve-like odds” for brunts is worse than the several layers of compounded RNG that would be removed if the locks were gone???

Removing the locks removes all the layers of RNG of Perk 1 & 2 and Blessing 1 & 2 rolling correctly and the layer of “having to get a 375+ rated item multiple times due to bricking”!
5 layers of RNG, gone by just removing the locks.

I’m sorry but I’d rather a 1/200 to 1/500 chance over the “fraction of a fraction^5” chance.

With all respect but I don’t even have to put those numbers into a calculator to see that your reasoning isn’t adding up.

@Ralendil

You spend millions and you could even never get a 375+ weapon.

This certainly needs to be fixed. The middle of the belle curve could be on the 355-365 range so that around 25% of items would be in the 370 ballpark. It’s one part of the issue but again, it does not hold a candle to the main offenders which are the locks, whether you agree or not.

[Ralendil]

@BFCInsomnia

Removing the locks removes all the layers of RNG of Perk 1 & 2 and Blessing 1 & 2 rolling correctly and the layer of “having to get a 375+ rated item multiple times due to bricking”!
5 layers of RNG, gone by just removing the locks

Maybe… But it won’t happen
After more than 6 months, if they wanted to remove them, it would be done.

In fact, all the system is built around the locks.

@BFCInsomnia

What timescale DO you suggest then? It’s certainly nothing below “days”, “weeks” isn’t really long enough either (dependig on standards ofc but since yours seem to be 375+ and correct blessings, weeks doesn’t cut it) and “years” is too long unless you’re actually after proper perfection… so what else but “months” is left? Nevermind the fact that it actually took me months to get the minimum of what I wanted on my Vet that has 290ish hours under his belt and my standards for gear were seemingly slightly lower than yours!

Hey, FatShark. I've just spent 13 thousand plasteel units to finally craft a weapon with the blessing I wanted

There is clearly a problem of time invested to get what you want. I finally always get what I want… but I play the game a little too much. The game needs to allow a casual player to enjoy it. That’s why I suggested several times: about weapons in shops a minimum for weapons global modifiers of 340 for all shops when you’re level 30 (normal shop, Brunt’s armoury, Melk’ shop) there should have a system that grant you a 360+ weapon after 5 purchases and a 370+ guaranteed after 10 about the …

2 months and half ago…

@Reginald

This is how i got most of my best weapons.

Honestly i have given up Brunt’s

I get better weapons from normal shop and also it burns less money

[Ryshek]

This is, unfortunately the best way. Very time consuming though.

[BFCInsomnia]

@Ralendil

Maybe… But it won’t happen

Maybe? More like definitely!

You have made it abundantly clear that you think that it wont happen. I’d still ask where you have confirmation on this front but we both know nobody has it, on both sides. Removing the locks is only one of several things that needs to happen and suggesting otherwise is a little disingenuous.

@Ralendil

In fact, all the system is built around the locks.

Yeah we know. Doesn’t mean that it has / should stay that way.

Yeah that post of yours is neat and all but it doesn’t answer my specific question. All you say is that “it takes too long” and you made a few suggestion that wouldn’t adress the actual issues, only make them more bearable. “More bearable” is not what we want or diserve to be frank with you. That is to say that they absolutely are good suggestions and I’d happely implement all of them over getting nothing for 6 months but then again, who wouldn’t?

@Ralendil

After more than 6 months, if they wanted to remove them, it would be done.

Now this is also brilliant because it can be applies to literally anything you can think of. If they thought your suggestions were on the money, they would’ve implemented them after 2 and a half months too, right? Surely they would’ve, they had plenty of time -.-

I also wanna point out that that post went essentially nowhere in 10 weeks meanwhile any post suggesting the removal of the locks gets more traction within hours. Obviously this doesn’t mean that the more people say something the more correct said thing becomes but it does give all of us a clear idea of which aproach has more support and is more desired. Also trying to argue your case by answering with something off topic doesn’t help me see your point, all I see is that you don’t seem to have an answer or don’t want to give me one.

As far as I am concerned, if they truely don’t want to implement any changes to the crafting, we need the red item tier back and it has to have no restrictions on it (aka no locks on nothing) and they need to be reasonably easy to optain. Or you know… they could just change a 1 to a 0 in their code…

[FASAStampede]

My latest opinion upgrade on this topic:
Introducing a mechanic which allows us to “purchase” locks off of gear would be a very solid middle ground. For one, it doesn’t go against FS dev goals, it does let veteran players play around much more easily with gear they accumulate and gives a traceable goal for newer enjoyers to work towards.

I’d say about 1k Adamantine is a good point, which would mean another 2k investment into one weapon or curio.

This is my latest 5 cents on the matter, aside from apathy whenever I want to try something new and any lack of emotional response towards T5 missions rewards and the MEHlk shop…

[brosgw]

Even if it was diamonds, melk coin, and ordos to even just temporarily remove the locks it would still be a vast improvement. Maybe they would even use aquila to do it and the reaction would be volatile

The only other compromise I could really settle for if locks HAD to stay is that when you swap a perk/blessing it’s THAT perk/blessing that gets locked. So you can change whatever blessing/perks you want but you would need multiple bases to do anything different.

[Raspy]

they could fix this and make a fun challenge and keep the unfun (anti try out diffrent build) locks if you could get reds on t5 lootdrops
It would still be grindy but at least you would get some incentive to play and it would have somewhat of an endgame that isn’t insane pointless nonprogession RNG

[zaygr]

Alternatively being able to spend to upgrade a locked blessing or perk, so while the type is still a dice roll, the tier isn’t.