And also, the healthbars break visual style ALOT, in V1 healthbars were primarily used to train yourself for breakpoints (god I miss the system where I KNEW 2 hits from hammer X enemy is down ALL THE TIME)
This was more or less fixed by adding kill confirmations to the crosshair.
Btw, is there some kind of a sanctionned mods list somewhere? so we know if a mods is probably safe, both to use and to not get banned later.
well not that i know of, but you can go to fatsharks post about what metrics in mods they are tolerating.
if a mod somehow can be interpreted to not fall in them i would recommend not using them
They should communicate if they see a mod that they want to prohibit.
There’s one thing that we cannot miss. The launcher.
They make it as an announcement on the launcher and that’s done… or they could also prohibit it in the game when the game loads mod… instead it would display a warning, and log that the warning has been issued. If the player bypass it… it deserves then a temporary ban (and a definitive if he insists).
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well what they should communicate, is lots of things…
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Must agree… sadly.
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How is a tiny healthbar that shows your damage cheating? In what world do you live?
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Seeing enemy health bars unquestionably gives the player using it an advantage to their situational awareness
I did one run last night with mods loaded up (including healthbars) and being able to turn a corner and see exactly how many elites/specials were ahead if like being able to freely tag multiple enemies at once was pretty rad. Logically, if multiple players are running this the team will be able to focus fire down targets easier and make the run easier. These are simple facts about what the mod does.
Having said all of this, I also don’t really have a problem with it. Yes, it confers an advantage, but how impactful is that advantage “really” at the end of the day? My feeling is that is a team stumbles into a bad situation where they might wipe, the healthbar mod probably wouldn’t make much difference on your survivability. It might let you more optimally clear other situations, but you probably weren’t at risk from wiping then anway.
So yes, it confers an advantage, but at the end of the day probably not a big enough one to worry about.
I’m going to STOP running it, just because I don’t like the visual clutter and prefer the immersiveness of not having it.
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lol wow, because Darktide needed to be easier.
Have you ever been surpised by a shotgunner/netter/dog? Now you wont, cause you see 'em healthbars even through wall. You ever had a situation go downward because a mixed horde with 6 ragers ripped your team? Now you wont, because you can easily snipe wounded ones to lower their number to a more handleable amount. It gives an impactful advantage over players who dont use it. It gives you important information a vanilla player wouldn’t get.
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What I’m going to say will probably come off as arrogant, but all I read is
I am not so experienced at the game yet and I need to cope with that. Thus I choose to be outraged at convenience mods.
If you are surprised by a Shotgunner, Netter or Dog, you need to improve your situational awareness critically. They all have very strong tells for their presence. The Trappers and the Hounds make very loud, audible noises. Both on spawn and the entire time while active. The Trapper is drooling and laughing madly like a drug addict on the way to his smegma dealer, meanwhile the Hound is barking and howling like someone cut it’s tail off. As for the shotgunner you can tell him apart in any situation because he wears a gigantic battle standart made of bone on his back. He stands out even in crowds.
As for scenario two:
If a mixed Horde with 6 ragers rips your team, you need to work on your killing efficiency or dodging skills, perhaps both. That encounter is advanced gameplay 101 and can be solo’d by any career and any setup in the game right now. You start learning how to deal with that in Malice.
If you are half a decent player, the only thing that should bring your team ever down is disabler spam from the AI director as you are distracted with something else, boss fights in a cramped area with Horde on top or high damage specialists one-tapping you through toughness (sniper).
And if you can deal with everything else, those healthbars don’t make a difference.
If on the other hand you can’t deal with any of these things, having their health bars shown will not help you keep your head above water either. By the time you have made your mind up who to shoot first because you’re checking that healthbar you’re already interrupted by the poxwalkers surrounding you.
By the way, I don’t have any mods installed right now. But I looked at what’s available online and none of these will drastically improve or change your skillset.
Either you got it or you don’t.
Either you know where the spawns come from (and by gameplay hour 300 you will) or you don’t.
Either you notice that you have enough killing power with your current setup or you don’t. A healthbar on top of enemies you’d kill right away regardless, a scoreboard at the end of a mission and a munitions counter for your teammates instead of vague yellow-red symbols isn’t going to change your decision making. You think that it will, but it really won’t.
.
Edit: This really reminds me of the flamer thread where everyone pretends that Zealot Flamer is overpowered. Either I’m playing a different version of the game or this community needs to drastically broaden it’s horizont.
To be fair, if you are half a decent player you would know the value of seeing if you can 1 shot for example 1 of the 3 crushers infront of you. You don’t have to risk quessing if they are low or not and suddenly you gave yourself way more room to deal with the other 2. Yeah maybe not the most threatening enemy by themselfs but i for sure would love to know if crushers HP was 300 or 310, it could be the difference between me needing 1 or 2 shots.
This goes also into perfectly tracking positions on enemies such as snipers. Granted i haven’t really seen what the max showable distance for these HP bars is, but from positional information alone you can stop quessing if that sniper can shoot you or not you will simply know it.
Yeah the mod will do absolutely donkey for average player but those who can understand ideas such as breakpoints, releving pressure and such can get value out of it that you cant just judge without it.
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Well, the sniper always gives away his position with that red laser sight of his, but I get what you mean with the tracking.
The other stuff you know if you just play around in the Meat Grinder for a bit or look it up on the wiki. The stats for enemies in this game are not dynamic, they are always hard locked to their difficulty level.
If you are playing a game and all the sudden turn a corner and your teammates are fighting 4 bulwarks all with their back to you there is no amount of situational awareness that will tell you what bullwark has the least hp. Now someone with an hp mod will know exactly what bulwark to focus first.
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Yes i will generally know what my breakpoints are for a given weapon and i can make some rough esimates as to what my teammates might be as well. But if say, someone shoots with the bolter into a massive horde that has lots of meat in it, some ragers, crushers maybe bulwark and some maulers. I could guess from seeing the impact that maybe that rager there might be low, like typically rolled bolter should have at the very least shaved something off right?
Well this guy decided to be an absolute master of memeing and had some 20% meme gun that barely did anything. I would never know this from just looking at that explosive carnage that just happened. The mod told me that this rager i was about to hit is still somehow very much alive.
(Yes very biased example but just to demonstrate my point here)
Is this information neccesarily the game changer here? Probably not but it still gives me access to information i would not have normally. I at least know that this dudes bolter will probably not do as much damage as i would expect.
Is it too powerful from a single mod? Well like i said in my initial post i’m not sure but its definitely an information advantage over those who won’t use it. And obviously better the player the better he can use such information.
Edit: sry for the edits but really wanted to get this point across.
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Actually there is. That one Bulwark, that is staggering and possibly bleeding or on fire with a debuff on him? Yeah. That’s the one that’s getting focussed down right now. He will also make lots of funny “Ugh” “Euuh” and “gurgle” noises from taking damage.
I will do something insane now: I will argue that it’s the opposite, namely a disadvantage.
Have you heard of the “Paradox of Choice” before?
It’s a psychological effect that affects each and everyone of us. The more sophisticated, wider and more informative a selection is, the unhappier and more inadequate we feel with a decision.
In the same sense, information flood will make you actually more indecisive, rather than decisive. You’d think that more information help you make a better decision, but funnily enough that is not always the case.
When you have the situation you just described and you have no healthbares, you will not even think long what to do.
You see the Horde.
You see the Ragers.
You see the Maulers.
You see the Crusher and the Bulwark.
Which are you naturally targetting first? I’m not going to answer that for you, but in your mind you probably have a very clear picture of whom to take down first.
Naturally you will target first who you deem the most threatening in that situation. And you will base that decision on how well you can evade them. So my guess is that you will prioritize the Rager, then the mauler, then the Crusher / Bulwark and you kill some of that Horde on the side as you dance around it.
Now picture the same situation but your HUD is also cluttered with HP bars.
So you let those HP bars make your decision? Maybe the Bulwark has less HP percentage wise than everybody else. But now you attack the tankiest entity of the crowd as the Ragers close the gap and attack you.
Do you necessarily make the better decision because you have more information? Unironically, no. You are likely to make a worse decision, because you will focus on what has low HP rather than what is the most threatening to you right at this moment.
Edit: I read those edits. I understood what you were getting at. I still maintain what I say in this post.
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Welp i honestly was not expecting this but i will give you +1 for this write up.
Yeah the information might actually just be worse for me because now instead of acting i’m wasting too much time focusing on possibly irrelevant things.
But this is why i also belive that this mod is best in hands of actually good players and not any average joe. I concide that its at the very least worth considering your point here.
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I am fully convinced that this mod makes zero difference, which is why I’m really against mod work being banned.
Those who are good will do good with or without it. It will tell them simply nothing new.
Those who are still learning the game, will have a hard time without the mod and they will be no better with it because they don’t know what to do with those information or because it will overwhelm them. At least that’s how I see it.
Thanks for your arguments. Good talk.
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It gives the person using it a advantage even if it’s a small one that probably won’t save your team.
Except the part where it’s basically wall hacks that’s a big advantage.
If my team used it I wouldn’t care.
I personally wouldn’t since it’s extra clutter and I know I would end up just looking at red bars instead of what’s in frount of me.
pretty sure we know who needs the handicap here and is trying to explain away a reason why him using it isnt an advantage.
this. strait up. your getting a veteran volly fire on every class. if you dont think thats an advantage your clearly delusional
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