I wish monsters didn't have a health bar

As the title says.
I think it would make monster fights more fun and immersive.
Maybe i could stretch my wish to only apply to cataclysm and legend difficulties for learning reasons, but rather not.
What’s your thoughts about this?

I’m pretty sure you can turn that off in mod

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I wish the game was balanced so that destroying monsters wasn’t trivial in parties with a GK, BH, and/or shade or a slog in others that are composed primarily of tanks. Ults generally just make the game worse. I much prefer VT1 in this respect.

No health bar, like in VT1, would be nice and a lot more fun.

I tend to agree… Maybe some kind of limit on megadamage, i.e. if the monster/boss is hit by one of these ults, he gets a barkskin like effect for 10 seconds against megadamage. Not Nurgloth the Eternal in his veritech mode, though.

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Yes, but I don’t want anyone i play with to be able to see a healthbar.

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To be fair, rat ogre in VT1 dies rather quickly too. I remember deleting them with one (maybe two?) mag of volley crossbow.

But I agree they need some rebalancing. The barkskin idea @Someone proposed I think sounds good, at least on paper. Though I am not sure I would make it easier for tankier careers. The way I see it is you trade damage for tankiness and greater utility, plus you can already somewhat limitedly mitigate this with the choice of weapons.

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Frankly I’m with you on this one, but I don’t think it a serious issue.
What would be really great if FS could introduce a system similar to Mordhau, or just steal theirs - we won’t tell anyone! :smiley:

Thing is, the difference between a verm1 group going full try-hard on an ogre and an average group is not that high. Sure, with a strength potion and full focused fire from volley crossbow, hagbane and repeater handgun he dies in maybe 2-3 seconds. But if the ogre is alone and you have four people just dodging and whacking it with whatever weapons they have, he still dies in maybe 30 seconds.

In verm2 however there’s a pretty astronomical difference between the two groups. Literally the only thing preventing a monster from getting nuked by a full try-hard group is the fact that career skills tend to knock it around. If it stood in place as it ate Shade, GK and BH skills, it would be gone in an instant. This is precisely what tends to happen to Skarrik, who can die the instant he lands if a GK & BH connect their attacks. On the reverse, if the group doesn’t have the right kind of anti-monster DPS, Chaos monsters in particular never die anymore on Cataclysm. You’ll be whacking forever at trolls, chaos spawns or minotaurs.

This is one of the reasons why verm2 is so difficult to balance. If you balance a fight towards a normal group, you end up with something like Skarrik who just gets 1shotted by the extreme end. If you balance towards that end, you achieve something like Nurgloth, who is a complete pain to bring down without dedicated careers and weapons.

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Monster damage could easily get capped at a certain amount, dot damage reduced and stagger made more impactful. Removing the ability to crit monsters would also drastically reduce monster damage. Forgetting about any of this and forcing spawns of specials and wave when a monster gets triggered is also a fine way to keep the group busy. There is plenty of ways to make them more beastly without making them unbeatable for tanky careers and loads of them got suggested over the years. Most of them are probably crap in reality, but that’s what beta servers are for. To test dumb ideas. “Difficult to balance” is just Reikspiel for not important enough to balance.

There are only two possible reasons for that to not happen yet. Fatshark is fine with the current situation, or they know that people don’t want more difficult monsters. This forum, reddit, and steam show time and time again that learning how to play around specific situations and learning to take full advantage of a career is not popular at all.

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This capping high single hit damage to monsters thing is something that definitely should happen, and then their HP should be decreased a little as well. That’s pretty much the only way to balance monsters for all possible group compositions, as was said in this thread.

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Actually it’s just plain old English for “difficult to balance”. There’s a lot of stuff to consider when it comes to these things and all that I can say is that I’m glad I’m not the one supposed to do it.

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Funny thing is, iirc, around launch we did have a damage cap of 255 per hit (which might be one of the reasons why dummy damage goes up to a max of 255 before showing a 2nd number). However, enough people complained about the damage ceiling that fatshark removed it.

It feels like the thread has been hijacked :smiley:
Maybe you are right about monsters needing a larger rewamp, who knows. I just want the healthbar to go away, sounds rather simple comparing to some other suggestions in here.
If enough people want the healthbar to go away maybe they will take it away…

Monsters are the one type of enemy in the game where health bars are so useful to the point of necessity. Vermintide 2 is already a game which encourages players to process a lot of information to make better gameplay decisions and removing monster health bars would remove the ability for players to make quick, informed decisions in tense situations.

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That is exactly why I want it removed though. With the health bar visible you are not really fighting a monster, you are fighting the health bar half the time. It makes things too clear and predictable it gets cheesy sometimes. It would be much more fun to fully concentrate on the actual monster, its movement, position and attacks and try to predict when it goes down.

And as I said in the first post, leave it on for lower difficulties for learning purposes.

There is no reliable predicting when you remove the health bar, there is far too much variance in V2 with how much damage can be dealt per weapon, career & build. You’re not gonna know if your team mate has barrage with power vs. or if they’re getting critical hits and it’s especially unpredictable when you will turn your back to the monster to deal with hordes & specials. There isn’t a lot of audio/visual feedback for team mates using their normal weaponry without their abilities.

Monsters have a lot of health on difficulties higher than legend and taking away such a key element will only make it harder in an unpleasant way, especially for uncoordinated groups such as random QPs.

The monster health bar is well placed in the UI and non-obtrusive, if you can’t get your eyes off of it then that’s on you.

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Even if I can take it away personally it is not a good enough solution. I wish noone could see the bloody health bar as it is a co-op game :face_with_hand_over_mouth:

There are actually visual cues to a monster being badly wounded as they bleed significantly more, but if you never take your eyes from the health bar you wouldn’t know. Watch this clip to see what i mean: rat ogre - YouTube

Literally at half health he’s bleeding as much as when it dies. Which again, kind of proves Harridas’s point.

I dont know why this mole hill is something to die on. If you dont want health bars thats w/e, but your entire team? What makes you get to decide that? lol

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Vermintide has the most pleasing first person combat of any game I have played. The more I immerse myself in the combat the more fun and rewarding it is. Killing a monster should be the most rewarding feeling, but just for monsters the health bar pops up suddenly, and it significantly lowers that rewarding feeling for me.
Maybe health bars serve a good purpose in some games, but not in vermintide.

Im not deciding anything, but im here to make posts i hope will enhance the game further for me and my playstyle. To hide the health bar just for me is not a good enough solution as I want everyone in the team to play with the same conditions.

Don’t you want them to also use the same UI and graphics settings as you? Maybe even play the careers and builds of your choice? I’d imagine it’s fairly easy and straightforward to remove monster health bars with some something like UI Tweaks, and you don’t have to alter anything else of the UI if you don’t want to. Having demands on what other players experience is pretty absurd though.

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