Kitchen knife is the new meta

No it can’t. It triggers on dmg, Force Sword push attack does 1 dmg (weakspot) so that might lead to this confusion. At least unless it’s changed. I very rarely use that talent since an RNG proc every 15s is never gonna be better value than something else for whatever your build is.

Imo Kinetic Flayer has needed rebalancing ever since the class overhaul. Previously it was ok because that BB proc both stacked Warp Charge/Siphon (it could only be stacked via BB back then, and all builds wanted to stack it) and triggered other talents/feats, with effects like +25% dmg from all sources, 4x Soulblaze to everything around the target etc. Now almost all of those other effects are gone, BB itself is weaker, yet the talent still has the same proc chance and CD as before.

They could easily lower the CD to 10s and set it to proc on special+ hits only and it still wouldn’t be OP.

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I use it all the time, the amount of times of killed crushers, ragers etc…

Personally I think it is very under valued.

Hey ! So I tried Riposte using the following:

I probably don’t have the set up you use: the talent tree is my lacerate+whatever build.
My gut feel is that one of the bleed skills, at least with this tree, is far better than riposte. Riposte you get on dodge, I get, which is likely up a lot … but it’s 20%. Whereas in a horde I’m on 30% with stacks, plus I’m getting bleed damage.

Just wondered what your tree was?

Gonna try some comparisons between lacerate and flesh tearer. I don’t think it’s all that clear cut. Within about 2 seconds I’m at max bleed stack with lacerate on a single target. My guess is that it works out about the same; but lacerate gets going from time=0s whereas flesh tearer takes a short time to wind up. And meanwhile; on small targets, a crit plus some bleed stacks is enough.

My tree looks like that.

Or like that.

Not really. First of all, you’re not stacking Uncanny Strike when you do bodyshots.
A guy had a much better summary than I’m able to do so I’ll just repost his 2 cents:

Lacerate is a worse fleshtearer that requires you to avoid the knives 2.5x to 3x headshot damage multiplier for a bleed that is not actually good as you think (see attached bleed table)
Fleshtearer is viable with lots of crit chance (piety, scourge), since with scourge, 1 crit is 10 bleed (scourge is 2 bleed) on a target you already chunked to the head.
And uncanny allows you to be safe and bleed a crusher pack to death since rending applies to bleed, in addition to just obliterating their health with 100% rending heavy headshots.
This is also on top of crits having the same multipler (both at once making you deal like 5-6x damage) as headshots so stacking crit is already great.
Those multipliers are also why a riposte/precog knife can kill a boss in a few headshots due to the massive 60% finesse bonus and duelist giving 50% weakspot and crit damage, both on dodge.

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Edit: (I apologize, this is yet again way too long, don’t feel bad if you don’t wanna read it… I don’t know if I would x.x)

Genuinely asking for advice here btw.

I love Duellist, I’ve used it on so many builds, stacked it with Martyrdom etc. for crushers, hammers, everything and it’s just such a fantastic talent for anything that does crits or weakspots! And with zellies basically everything can do crits anyway. As you said it would pair so well with many of the knive’s blessings.

So why doesn’t it work out that way in practice, at least for me?

See, I’d had a long break from knives and really only got back to them idk 3-4 months ago. And when I did, I didn’t even consider something like Lacerate. After all why would you use a blessing that’s never going to proc if you play right? Knives are a crit/weakspot weapon through and through! So all I did was everything else: Flesh Tearer, Mercy Killer, Riposte & Uncanny, etc. And yet it was never enough, it was always too weak, always something lacking. If I specced to take down oggies it sucked against horde, or vice versa, Flesh Tearer was never consistent enough no matter how high the crit. And by the time I got the bleed up whatever I was hitting was dead already.

So I had this realization that the problem - at least my problem - was that consistency and how the knives absolutely need those crits & headshots. IF I got weakspots & crits, it would die and fast. If I didn’t, I might as well just tickle them with a brush. And between how the enemies animate, raise their hands or turn a shoulder where the head should’ve been, get knocked around by teammates etc. I can’t guarantee headshots with a high enough consistency. Against few enemies at a time yes, but not when things got big and messy. For most weapons this was never a problem, their base dmg is high enough to do real dmg even if you don’t always get the head. But not knives.

So 2 months ago or so I tried Lacerate & Flesh Tearer. The idea was simple: If every single strike is guaranteed to stack bleed (and capping it as fast as possible), or hit a head, or both, then that low base dmg and consistency wouldn’t be a problem any more. And I hoped that even missing out on those other blessings would be made up for by those bleeds, resulting in overall similar or higher DPS. Outside of crushers ofc.

And it worked exactly like I hoped. And now I just can’t go back, and see no point in anything else. I don’t care of the monster has its back on me, if the reaper or those 5 flak trash/specials cover their heads with an arm, if the horde is spread over the ground & crouching & standing and I have to aim at their knees to cleave them all at once. It doesn’t matter. Either way I’m doing so much dmg they’ll die. And if I really need to focus something down fast a simple push-attack+light or push-attack spam combo will drop it down anyway. Crushers are rare and few enough that the few extra hits compared to if I had Uncanny isn’t gonna be the thing that kills me anyway.

And I wonder if it’s the blessings being too good, or more likely me just being so bad I can’t tap the heads like I should.

Anyway, that’s one question: Is it me, or is it the blessings? I’m not saying bleed is better for every single thing. I’m saying it seems like overall it’s the best by far, and the few weaknesses it leaves you with are something you can (and likely will) easily live with.

Another question: Does anyone know where knife VI would be better than III? Excluding Haymaker ofc. I’ve mapped the full movesets on both tried them in plenty of missions, and in theory VI should be better at cleaving thanks to its first 2 heavies. But it never works that way in practice. A bleed knife III can do what the VI heavies do faster and easier with basic light spam, and III has far better heavies and push-attacks for the stronger mobs. Am I missing something?

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Being inconsistent with headshots may be a matter of your zealot’s height. If the character is too short or too tall it may be not easy to hit weak spots. Try adjusting it.

Mk.6 has faster push attacks, also it is able to stack Uncanny Strike a bit faster.

That is correct. If you use a knife - with any blessings - you absolutely must hit the weak spots. There’s no way around it.
If that’s something that you don’t find enjoyable, then my honest advice is to use a Rashad mk.2 Combat Axe instead of a Combat Blade. I’m not saying that you’re not skilled enough to use a knife, what I mean is you’ll be able to achieve much better results without changing your playstyle. It’s a much stronger weapon than any bleed knife can ever hope to be, on top of being much easier to use.

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Please don’t tell people about the Rashad it is my secret

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You can totally build a viable knife playstyle centered around just the bleed stacks and bodyshotting. You’re discounting a playstyle you likely never tried if you say it doesn’t work.
It’s not the best setup since it makes you worse at killing carapace and bosses but otherwise it’s alright and in some aspects better than the duelist approach, specifically for beating the hell out of gunner stacks or mixed hordes it’s got advantages. Considering how non dangerous crushers and bosses actually are it sorta balances out even if the power drop for those is severe, and on all classes you have tools that let you kill crushers regardless so it’s not as big of a disadvantage as it could be if you pick your build intelligently. It’s probably harder to use though because you’ll mix up headshots and bodyshots depending on kill time depending on how much HP something has left and wether it’s about to try to hurt you.

I’m just saying this again because I’m not sure I’m getting my point across but of course the uncanny or precog approaches are realistically better. But pretending it’s the only thing that works? Not true one bit. There’s blessing combos that are arguably garbage and keep the knife from doing anything useful but double bleed works fine if you play it around it

secrets out m8!

it’s what I used to get my skulls for the skulls event, totally meta :smiley:

Way easier to make stuff harder.
Let’s hope for that.

If youre taking riposte, you might as well drop a point in Second Wind and Duellist.
Now every dodge gives you not only the +crit chance on knife, but also +15% toughness (plus curio bonus if ever), and +50% weakspot and crit dmg.
3 buffs every melee/ranged dodged.
I’d trade out Blood Redemption and Swift Certainty.

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Does Serrated Blade talent stack each hit? So the more you spam someone the more bleed stacks? Or does it only ever remain 1 stack per enemy?

This is a good point. I always play the shortest chars I can. :sweat_smile: Not gonna change that tho.

That could be true, but III has a way better moveset on it. It’s nearly impossible to miss a headshot with that up-down motion and even if you do you’ll at least hit the body, as opposed to VI’s stab. They both do the same dmg but III has better moves on everything else. Even its special followup is way stronger.

But this might really be a case of those blessings and my playstyle. For cleaving headshots without bleed VI might well be the better pick that’s true.

Yeah but my earlier point kinda was that a bleed knife changes this. To rephrase my earlier post: A bleed knife will still kill most anything more than fast enough with those headshots or crits. But unlike the other blessings, a bleed knife can afford to miss a few headshots or get an unlucky string of few to no crits, bc every single one of those is guaranteed to stack that bleed. With how DoT’s work with their logarithmic dmg curve (no real dmg at low stacks, high at mid, and insane at high), being able to always without exception max that bleed in an instant without relying on crits, is like an insurance plan that says “either you take high dmg to your face right now, or you’ll take even higher dmg 1s later, your choice”. :sweat_smile:

As for Rashad, thanks for the suggestion but I’m really not looking for another weapon. Certainly not something like Rashad, it has none of the qualities I love in knife after all (speed, mobility, sprint efficiency, crit, utility, etc). I certainly don’t struggle with the knife, far from it. I’ve played T5+ since release and experimented with all weapons most of them many, many times. The bleed knife is by far the best overall. My question was about whether anything else besides bleed was anywhere as strong, or if it’s just my skill being the issue and I can’t use the others effectively enough. :slightly_frowning_face:

You’re right ofc, but I want to emphasize that my point here is that I use that bleed knife almost exactly the same as I would use any other knife. As a rule I always try to aim for headshots. Whether I get them or not or just zone out on auto pilot is ofc. another issue entirely, but I do try.

There are ofc. exceptions like monsters, muties running by with their head facing the other way etc… situations where stacking the bleed first takes priority.

But yeah, I really did mean it literally that I use it as an insurance policy. The main job of that Flesh Tearer isn’t to support Lacerate but the other way around, it lets me stay focused on the heads without giving up on bleed. And if I can’t, then Lacerate picks up the slack and provides a guarantee of bleed as a safety net.

That said, I’ve been meaning to test out variations like, say, Lacerate & Uncanny. But at that point it’s as you said and I’d have to consciously be making the choice between head vs. body shots a lot more often and I don’t like the idea of that really.

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Currently trying lacerate and backstab on a fairly unlocked Mk VI. Like you, I have less vertically blessed characters, but I’m still of a hunch that a guaranteed bleed on each strike (or at worst, a headshot that’s likely a crit) works better for me as I’m at 8 stacks or more within a second and critting with almost every hit. I circle strafe all opponents where I can, so unless I get 6-crusher-stomped I’m working on a 90% rending on the second and thereafter hit theory (~ it’s only a T3 blessing).

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Anyone know the answer to this?

I would have to test it out at some point, but I believe it adds an extra stack of bleed on hit, not cap out at 1.

At the very least I know that it resets the cooldown on bleed, so if for example you have a chain weapon with bloodletter you can keep an enemy at max stacks for longer (at least last I checked).

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It’s 1 stack per hit. Each hit adds another stack.

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Remove uncanny from knife blessing pool, problem solved.

Btw to get back to this, I tried this idea out today.

First I thought I’d do Lacerate & Executor to buff the weakspots, cleave & bleeds through that +Power. But I had a bad feeling about Executor so I went and tested it in the grinder. Sure enough the blessing cancels the moment you hit anything but a head. What I didn’t expect was that even deliberately aiming at those heads I was still constantly hitting something else & resetting Exec every few swings.

So I figured if that’s the case then let’s just try Lacerate & Mercy Killer (ikr? :grimacing:). And since no more Flesh Tearer, I switched the +5% crit perks for something else like flak / carapace.

I only did a few missions on my psyker and my vet, but honestly I think this is it. This is the knife now, at least for me. xD I’m still aiming at those heads all the time but now everything just dies way way faster. And the difference in bleed hasn’t even been noticeable so far. Probably just because of how the consistency and min/avg stacking speed isn’t all that different from before. It was especially noticeable on my vet! I’ve never liked the bleed knife on a Weapons Specialist / Agile Engagement build since it’s always too slow to kill for swapping as fast as I’d like, so I usually go with axes or DClaw or something. I’ve had that weapon switch buff sitting next to my crosshair for a while, I know how slow it usually stacks with that knife. This time tho it was stacking up instantly and all the time!

Anyway, the new knife feels crazy strong! It also ramps up those push attacks - which I love - and that oggy/monster dmg to a whole other level. :joy:

I think it’s funny how no matter how much theorycrafting I do there’s always going to be something like this. I’ve stared at Lacerate & Mercy Killer so many times without ever giving them a second thought. After all, matching the two makes no sense on paper at all. Yet here we are. :sweat_smile:

Didn’t want to prejudice the views; but this has been the knife I’ve had as my go-to for the last 15 months or so:

I even like having stamina on it; helps for everything including those pick-ups. I’ve been trying the mk VI but it just feels like the mk III is faster.

*edit: found this Recommended blessings? - #21 by 1Cake
Pretty sure I followed a zonks old build.

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