Kerillian, Sienna add toxicity -> suggestion

Everyone knows they’re just spamming ulti, but I’d like to point out how it affects player interaction further, which might be not obvious unless you play them, but not the spamming specs.

As you go Unchained in champion, sometimes you’ll just be kicked out of the party unless you change to Pyro. Or, you go as Handmaiden, same happens.

Obviously those ults should be changed to promote, how shall I put it, skill based play. That means taking auto-homing off them. Make them just go in a straight line sniper-like. Make one of them ricochet so it could be fun in tight spaces. Make the other, I don’t know, put a damage over time on whatever enemies it penetrates.

Somebody might say hey just leave them be but deal with the quick cooldown. Nope. It’s easily countered by the %2 cooldown reduction on crits (beam staff? or, I presume, a swift bow.)

Or, come up with something better than these suggestions, but GET RID OF IT as it is. I don’t care if those spammers aren’t interested in skill-based play, it’s their own business, but like I said, people start kicking unless you play these OP specs.


I dont know about siena, but i have over 70 hours of gameplay on handmaiden, and it literally does what you wrote (straight line dash with bleed, and the bleed damage equals about one light attacks damage over 3 seconds), also its on ~25 sec cd, so if you use the weapon trait its 0,5 sec cd reduction on crits, so its kinda nothing, so its not worth using it on HM imo, its better on other classes with ults on higher cd.
I dont think they should nerf the cd on it, because its “spammable”. You need to use it smartly, else you can find yourelf in the middle of a horde, and a boss can push you back middash if you dont time it between its attacks…
Also get rid of it? Thats also a dumb way to suggest a change to the game. Its the same like saying that f@ck trolls, spawns, get rid of them… also i hate siena, lets delete her too, but now that i think about it f@ck the dwarfs too… Instead of this they should balance the other subclasses so i dont feel inferior if i dont play the meta. (also i dont consider the HM meta on Keri, since WS exists, but thats another story)

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Bardins with pistols are worse.


THANKS, finally someone else who understans my pain…

I’m not sure we’re talking about the same spec. Kerillian/Sienna spammable ulti that everyone expect you to use are the auto-homing missiles that insta kill specials or do heavy damage to bosses.

Yep. Definitely not talking about the same specs. Nothing wrong with Handmaiden, but just because it’s harder to play (not so OP), people would kick you because they don’t want skill-based gameplay, they just want xp for minimum effort.

It’s the never-ending “I want to actually play the game” vs “I want to abuse every single thing there is to get maximum profit on my character, because I’m a spreadsheet guy, not a gamer” argument.

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I haven’t seen anyone kicked for those reasons. If that’s a problem, just host your own games. I see Handmaidens/Shades and Unchained in Legend and no one says anything. If you play well, no one says anything. And if they did say anything, it would be suggestions or something helpful. People really only say bad stuff if you’re playing bad(aka why are they in Legend right now).

There are only 4 reasons actives are used frequently:
It’s needed often
They gain something from it(like ammo/overcharge)
Short cooldown so may as well use your tools
Not a skilled player(this would pertain to picking and choosing when to use it on higher difficulties, rather than blowing it on any little thing)

Again, if it’s a problem, just host a game.


You can’t remove the homing aspect because then they’d be just a regular attack with slightly above average damage and not really an ult. The ‘skill’ should come in the form of game sense and knowing when to hold onto your ult and when to use it. The only tangible option is increasing the cool down. “cooldown reduction on crits” would require you to give up another trait. You can’t just brush it off like that. But honestly I don’t think the cool down is an issue. I think the issue is that you want to pew-pew specials and be all MLGpro and someone presses a button and steals your thunder. The issues with sienna aren’t because the pyro has a stupid ult.


Have you played on Champion? If it’s Pyro + Waywhatever Kerillian, it’s like playing on Recruit, you’re just a hot knife through butter. Grand strategy? Yeah, you hear a special and shoot the ult in its general direction even if it’s around a hill or a building, the special is dead. It’s fire and forget. You’re fighting a boss? Just run around and shoot ult on cooldown, because that’s skill. Dodging? Blocking? Working as a team? Ahahahah, jesus. Come on.

They’re making the game too easy, there’s no challenge whatsoever. Specials? Forget about them, Keri/Sienna will autokill them on sight. Chaos Knights? Ditto. Boss fights? Just kite them while Keri/Sienna spam ulti. Because skill. That’s the issue.

Don’t make any single specialisation a spammable no-skill mechanic.

You’re partly right of course, just as I’m right on the other part. It’s both true, because even if I’m hosting a game, “you’re playing against a meta” is still a toxic thing, whether you host your own or not.

“They’re making the game too easy, there’s no challenge whatsoever.”
“in champion”

OK go play lord /legend or start a stream and ask twich chat to make your game harder.
Want champion to be harder: get some friends and play whatever composition you want.
You’re really not stuck for options here.

Do you always just assume

a. everyone’s got friends
b. at least some of those friends play computer games
c. among that subset, some are playing vermintide
d. on the same hours as each other?

No, so-called friends isn’t an option for everyone, on the contrary - it’s uncommon and only a few happy people can do that.

So the only real option is the matchmaking. And it’s plagued by press-R-to-win players, which, as another thread on this forum said, devalue all other classes.

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I said ‘get’ some friends. You can make friends by playing the game. Good luck.

Fixing the damn balance would be a million times easier than forcing gamers to socialise.

Which is your problem then? You say you don’t like the “spam” or that people kick, but now with options presented to you to deal with that you suddenly say you’re being forced to socialize? No one is forcing you to play quick play. No one is forcing you to play with other people. You have bots. You can play by yourself. You don’t have to socialize.

You say it’s balance, but by the looks of it you are just having bad experiences and are pointing fingers wildly to direct frustration. There’s nothing wrong with homing abilities on cooldowns. It’s really useful when specials spawn non-stop in Legend and in general it’s enjoyable to use abilities more than 3 times every match.
Also, each weapon and career excels and lacks in different areas. Due to the stat screen though, a lot of people gawk and aw at high stats without considering what’s important: Finishing the mission. At higher difficulties people generally care less about stats and care more about winning. In the easier difficulties, you can just mow your way through with less concern. It’s likely one of the main reasons you probably run into some of your problems.

I’ve played many different video games and a lot of people are terrible to each other. You see all sorts of people. Some nice, some are know-it-alls even if they’re clueless, some are elitist, trolls, and so on. People are programmed into a “meta mindset” with games. There are a good chunk of gamers that file in like sheep to preach and practice the meta that they’re told. As much as I am critical of things(like gaming companes), this is a people problem more than a developer problem. If you want it to change you just have to try being nice even if you come across bad people.


Pyro and Waystalker devaluing other specs, which leads to everyone expecting those exact specs in their party, and the more difficult it gets, the more it is expected, which you’ll confirm further down.

No doubt about that. You know what would be even more useful on Legend? Unlimited ammo, unlimited life, 9999 hero power, and sometimes monsters just commiting suicide at the sight of you. Promoting skill based gameplay since 2018.

I don’t see any reason in fixing symptoms, fixing the cause would be more productive - get rid of press-R-to-win. It’s an anomaly that breaks the balance. Putting more restrictions on it would be a good step: limit its range, remove the homing ability, do something to stop it being just fire-in-the-general-direction-and-win.

And somehow you just assumed that the only way to make friends in Steam is through RL
I’ve made lots of friends in Steam and Overwatch just by playing with people. Be nice and you will eventually find a group with good synergy and will add them as friends to play again.

I’d prefer the balance to be fixed, thank you.

You know that waystalker and huntsman are 2 most nerfed classes in game? with huntsman being so nerfed that nobody even wants to touch him anymore.
Thats no balance.

Ppl were asking for buffs for handmaiden and melee dps classes since closed beta…

Then prepare for quite the wait, because they first need to fix some bugs, like the Skittergate one. Balance will come later.
Seeing that you seem reluctant to “be nice” and complain about homing attacks, I have to agree with the people that believe you to be one of those players obsessed with the scoreboard at the end of a match… Sad :frowning:

That’s why I don’t use the term “nerf”. Fix it, not just make it weaker.

Why not join the Fatshark Discord