Remove and Rework Waystalker's Trueshot and Pyromancer's Burning Head

Having both of these ultimates on your team trivializes Specials, and I think this is why this sequel is designed to throw so many Specials at you now, because otherwise Specials would be meaningless with this team comp. The problem though is that Specials are so overwhelming especially on Legendary that it pays so so big to have these on your team, especially with all their other benefits.

The game would be greatly improved if you removed these noskill shots and laid off the ridiculous special spam.

Too many classes right now feel useless when all the specials are autoaimed, and all the hordes are set on fire. As Kruber I feel like I only have an impact stunning/burning bosses, reviving players, and killing the few enemies that sneak up behind the classes doing all the work.

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That’s just the way of things, some characters just aren’t there to get all the kills. They have other uses.

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In favor of removing homing from these and see how it goes.

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I hear you! I’ve had couple games, where I couldn’t play meele game at all, because WS and Pyro would just shoot everything with no real challenge! And I would only mess their aim up, should I try to get some work done with my two-handed sword!

Like what? I want to play the game, not stand on a side and wait for 80% of the run.

The problem with these hoaming skills is that they require no skill, and you’re not punished for misfiring them. You will get your value anyway, and they are really strong. (technically there are about two conditions, but they are pretty simple, and even if you miss one thing you want to kill, it wouldl still kill smth else) With all other skills you have to think on how you’re using them. All of the charge-type abilities could really screw you if you jump the wrong way and get surrounded, for example, and they are less impactfull. Warcry abilities have extremely long cooldown. Invis abilities take time to set up and have less impact on average. So, in general, all other skills have less impact and are harder to use.
What I would like to see for WS is to give her good old TF for 3-4 seconds. This way it would be more in line with hunters prowl and holy fever, temporary increasing her damage and still allowing her to snipe high value targets, but now it will take more time to get the results and add some skill - a bit of aiming and a lot of positioning.
For pyro I really like it, because it gives her answer to distant armoured specials, she lacks otherwise. But I would make iit more in line with BH ability, maybe less spread, faster projectile and more range? And make body hits more imactfull. So now you will still be able to kill gunners or flamers, but would now have to point at them. And make 25 talent that removes overcharge completley to remove 50% or 60% of it.
That’s my vision on healthy nerfs, that would keep careers viable. What do you think?

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I’m fine with special spam on deed modifiers, but special spam all during normal maps breaks a fundamental part of the game: warnings when specials spawn. The players don’t say “2 hook rats!” Sometimes it is 1 sometimes 2 sometimes 3 show up, often stacked on top of each other but you only get one warning. So you’re alwayss on edge or else you kill one turn back to fight horde and the second or third gets you.

Their ultis are fine and needed, they are specials killers, that their job and they should be best characters in games for it. On higher difficulties you got so many specials, that 80% of them must be killed with weapons and auto-homing are used when it is hard to do it with the weapon.
People should stop complaining about specialized classes that actually do their job. What next? Soldier Kruber and Ironbraker should be nerfed because they are too tanky ? :smiley:

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As long as there are stormers and ratlings that shoot you from halfway cross the map from behind solid objects, these specials are absolutely necessary.

I wanted to create a topic on this as well, for several reasons regarding the auto aimg feature of Sienna/Pyromancer and Kerillian/Waystalker.

First off, they hit way too hard and too many targets (speaking of Legend), and when compared to other career abilities it is just disheartening. Take BH(not that BH doesn’t need adjustment) who must line up his shots, where as Sienna/Kerillian just looks up, clicks F and gets a crazy amount of kills and at this point, builds are created around these abilities exclusively.

Secondly, the pathfinding is totally broken. The amount of times I’ve taken friendly fire from Keriliian/Sienna is astounding, even when they were not aimed in my direction - but arrows/spell randomly decides to go for a rat/northman I’m fighting and hitting me in the process.

They really should be changed, and if not changed, the damage should be severely nerfed, or the amount of tagets hit nerfed.

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I do think they could use some extra cooldown - slightly on WS, a bit more on Pyro.
Other than that, maybe fix the aiming?
I’d be in favour of them shooting straight for 5 Meters, and only targeting in the 120° in front of you for the first hit, or lose a bit of damage over time. Something to add a skill component, and it turn, make them usable at their job when enemy density is high. I’d like them to not go off killing random rats, and if there’s a mage somewhere it’d be nice if you couldn’t sniff him out with those abilities, but have to find him first.

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Take BH(not that BH doesn’t need adjustment) who must line up his shots, where as Sienna/Kerillian just looks up, clicks F and gets a crazy amount of kills and at this point, builds are created around these abilities exclusively.

BH is a boss killer, not a special killer, why do you compare it? Maybe compare to Slayer or Tanks? This argument is so invalid.

Let’s just image that, they nerfed pyro and WS. Who will kill specials on legends? There are so many of them already, please tell me, who?
You will get back to this forum crying that, there are too many specials. If you would like more diversity than, promote the idea to give to other classes a buff, not the other way around.

I really hate it how people here promote bad, cheap ideas. Like with BH and Shade, both boss killers, but BH is better at it, so what people would want fatshark to do? Nerf the BH! Instead of buffing Shade.

Be more chill about it, will ya?

First let me ask you, do you have no other choice but to rely on auto aim to kill specials? I see no need for it.

Secondly, I compare because these careers are the most popular at the moment, much because of their strong abilities when compared to others. A nerf, or change is without doubt needed to these specific abilities, as no one uses anything but. As I mentioned, LESS targets would be fine for me, as it right now kills crazy amounts.

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They home waaaay too well and recharge waaaay too fast. I’m really expecting some massive changes to higher level talents and play, because the game straight falls apart after 20.

Do you imply that you can’t play legend without WS or Pyromanser?

Personally, I’m fine with this abilities doing what they do pretty efficiantly. I just want some skill to be involved in them. When you snipe assasin with handgun people cheer: well done, nice shot! But if you do it with auto hoaming missle that only requires you to press ‘f’ and be with range of couple meters of target… It is pretty cheap and borring, I can’t get no satisfaction for sniping poor gunners with that.

I disagree with removing something because of the way they’re used.
They’re not “no skill” abilities, because they still have to be aimed (more or less) and the timing of their use is a huge consideration too. It’s not something you can just spam, because when you need it, sods law, you wont have it ready!

The game functions just as well without those abilities. Players are able to outmanoeuvre or kill specials before they become a threat with a variety of other weapons.
If you enjoy sniping an enemy, or rushing and taking them out close, go with that! If a player wants to save their career-skill for those panic moments where its needed! Let them play the way they enjoy.

On higher difficulties, or deeds, those abilities will be less useful because of the amount and timing they’re needed

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First let me ask you, do you have no other choice but to rely on auto aim to kill specials? I see no need for it.

This is how the skill is designed, and nerfed hard compared to V1, where auto-homing was on weapons. And I am fine with it, because they are specialized at killing hard enemies, what is also important, they cannot do only this, because there are too many ‘special’ mobs to kill, it is just an addition that is fine.
Maybe ask me if i have no other choice but to rely on Slayers 2 axes and utli ?:smiley:
Yes, I need to rely on my specials killers to do it, on legend specials neeeds to die in 1-2 s after we see it, as I play only Kruber and Bardin.

Secondly, I compare because these careers are the most popular at the moment, much because of their strong abilities when compared to others. A nerf, or change is without doubt needed to these specific abilities, as no one uses anything but.

There will be always better characters then others, so maybe we should also nerf Soldier Kruber, Ironbraker and BH, because they are in 99% legend games? The other characters needs buff, not the other way around.

As I mentioned, LESS targets would be fine for me, as it right now kills crazy amounts.

The more targets you hit, the less damage it already does and it’s only bounce of to another target if you have still some ‘dmg’ to spend. Thats why if you hit 1 chaos champion it would not bounce off.

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WTF no this is stupid. They both have a good roll. Other classes do just fine with their specials and fill an important role. Just get good and learn how to use them.

Do you imply that you can’t play legend without WS or Pyromanser?

Of course, you can, you only need a proper special killer. If it’s someone else then I am totally fine with it. People have a problem here that Pyro and WS are best and most popular at doing it, because they were designed to be best at it (by translating auto-homing from V1 weapons to their skills), which for me is fine. As you play every character should have a role to play in a team.

But if you do it with auto hoaming missle that only requires you to press ‘f’ and be with range of couple meters of target… It is pretty cheap and borring, I can’t get no satisfaction for sniping poor gunners with that.

I do not get any satisfaction playing either Sienna or WS, I play only Kruber and Bardin, but there are people who like it and I can understand it.
But also I do not have any satisfaction with playing handgun, just don’t like the ‘sniping’ characters, I prefer being in action, but we need in this game sniping characters.
What I do not want to see is that playing Kruber or Bardin I would be forced to take Handgun and shot headshots (as hs only kills specials in 1 shot), because there will be no good other characters at it and specials spawns in a large numbers.

It has certainly not been nerfed, it has been changed - no longer being permanent, but high damage.

Specials need to die, but relying on auto aim abilities isn’t required at all.

Not once did I say other classes doesn’t need tweaking, buffs, AND NERFS. Stop imposing onto me what you think I believe.

Doesn’t stop them from killing several special and elites in one use.

It has certainly not been nerfed, it has been changed - no longer being permanent, but high damage.

What? It was nerfed as hell, what truflight could do in V1 now WS can only dream of. You could have only her and she could snipe out all of the specials before they even get close. This is no longer the thing, you need about 2 characters that have the weapons/skills to kill the specials or you will have very bad time.

Specials need to die, but relying on auto aim abilities isn’t required at all.

Yep, it is not required, anyway it is also not an issue. In V2 having Pyro and WS in team using only skills to kill the special you will… die to specials. There are too many of them, so they have to kill them also with normal weapons. Having and auto-homing skills is just fine and cool addition.

Not once did I say other classes doesn’t need tweaking, buffs, AND NERFS. Stop imposing onto me what you think I believe.

You did not mention about buffing, and who and how to buff, you only complain about Pyro and WS. Anyway really, who in your opinion should be the special killer? Exept them? Imho ranger, who lacks identity. But all the other classes have their identity and should be change around it, so they would be good at it.

Doesn’t stop them from killing several special and elites in one use.

Like I wrote, depends on the hp of the elites, if it has too much hp it would not bounce off.

Of course I only talked about what was mentioned in the OP’s topic, come on. <<

It still kills several untouched enemies, stop faffing about.

It isn’t fine, it is lazy design. And I say again, there is absolutely no need for auto aim on Legend to kill specials. That is just wrong, I’ve done it several times already. Communication is key, not auto aim.

Waystalker/Pyromancer career abilities need a nerf or tweak, less targets or lower damage because right now it is ridiculous. Absolutely ,100% ridiculous.

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