Remove and Rework Waystalker's Trueshot and Pyromancer's Burning Head

Of course I only talked about what was mentioned in the OP’s topic, come on

Wow, first you are telling me that, you mentioned about buffing others, and when I catch you on a lie, than you are telling me that, you want to stick to OPs subject XD

It still kills several untouched enemies, stop faffing about.

Yep, which is intended and good.

It isn’t fine, it is lazy design. And I say again, there is absolutely no need for auto aim on Legend to kill specials. That is just wrong, I’ve done it several times already. Communication is key, not auto aim.

Only lazy thing here is your deduction, the skills are fine, and you are crying about it, because you do not understand the fundamental elements of specialization of the characters. They need a skill that would easily kill non-boss target. If they remove it then you will force the team, to take more anti-special weapons, forcing me and others to take handguns, because there will be no good characters in games to kill specials. And right now you anyway need 2 in the team!
I am 100% sure that, after nerfing them, there will be tons of topics with lowering the number of specials spawns and that means, nerfing these skills is bad, lazy, stupid idea.
Like it was with cries of nerfing Hunter and Bounty Hunter. After 2-3 days tons of topics with nerfing bosses because it is hard to kill them.
In general, if you want to nerf something, think about consequences. Here you will get:

  • specials will need to be nerfed hard
  • other characters will have to equip anti-special weapons
  • less diversity in weapon choosing
  • the game will get easier and less skill based

Waystalker/Pyromancer career abilities need a nerf or tweak, less targets or lower damage because right now it is ridiculous. Absolutely ,100% ridiculous.

They are 100% balanced and fine as it is. Less targets? So if one specials has 100 hp and the other 200 hp it should just ignore hp and kills it? Do not bounce off? Lazy thinking.
Lower dmg? It must kill any special or choas champion in 1 shot if he is the main target hitted (and it works like this right now). If you do not like it then just campaign for removing the skill at all xD

Sadly if it doesnt get triple headshot even 3 Keri abilities wont kill Chaos Champion

Turn in game music off, put your headphones on and listen, I can hear if it’s 1,2 or 3 the majority of the time :smiley:

There is even no need to use WS/Pyro active to kill specials. Anyone, but the slayer, can just point and shoot at specials.
Currently it’s kinda lazy to rely on the actives for specials and many players WILL use the active to take out a single easy enemy.
It’s easy to understand how this gets annoying for everyone else, specially when people get shot in the back by an auto-targeting ability.

As for damage:
WS’s active isn’t overly strong as it isn’t effective against armored targets, that’s obvious from champion and up. It also has a significant Cooldown and cannot be spammed even with a potion. It’s not anti-boss.
Pyro’s active seems to have better penetration and seems to reliably take out chaos champions with enough damage to spare and roll around. It also staggers some bosses.

My suggestion:
The only real OPness is that these actives can take out an intended target ahead of the caster and then flip around and take one or two bonus specials that no one ever saw. I don’t think it would hurt it if both actives were nerfed in the sense that they have less maneuverability so less 90-180 degree turns to hit enemies. If the devs are capable, of course.
I also feel that both abilities are too similar, even though Pyro’s stronger champion+. Since Pyro’s is already stronger (hard-hitting) I think it would be nice if her active got more focus on doing damage instead of multi-targeting.
It could be great if instead of glitch flying until running out of gas, the skull behaved more like a warhead and just blew his first target and everything in a 1-3m radius in a big ball of flaming glory with conflags and sparks.

As for the OP, your inability to be useful in Legend is not Kruber’s fault. Don’t blame the game. All of his ranged weapons can kill specials quickly (respecting the effective range of each) and his melee weapons can kill armored enemies much better, provided they aren’t instakilled by Pyro’s flying skull.
Anyway, supporting other players is just as important. If you want to compete with ranged kills you can always take the Huntsman and just 1 bodyshot every stormvermin.

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it’s almost like both of these heroes had weapons that could fire homing shots all the time in V1 and had those removed already… could there possibly be any more salt directed at these 2 heroes? those 2 abilities are nods to the weapons they had taken away already, and you’re trying to demand those removed as well… because sometimes they kill a special instead of randomly targeting some random slaves in between the special like they so often do?

yea… ok…

“ooga booga u ar the craying one XD”

You are one delusional bugger. :>
Ranting, insulting and raving like … yeah.

…what diversity? Everyone does one thing at the moment, and balancing through the coming months possibly even longer is going to happen - and these auto aim abilities are definitely in dire need of “BALANCING”, if you prefer that word over nerfs.

And you thinking that the game will be easier if these “PRESS F TO KEEL” abilities get changed to something that require a bit of aiming is absolutely hilarious. :slight_smile:

Couldn’t be more wrong, they hit allies, travel extremely far, do* ridiculous damage and hit things nowhere to be seen on screen.

they have a maximum damage potential, so it’s not like they’re gonna just delete every big target on the map… for one… however i do agree that an “intelligent” projectile should path around allies, not through them. In vermintide 1 it says that the trueflight arrows are imbued with a form of sentience… so they shouldn’t be trying to go through allies. unfortunately i’m not sure how possible it is to fix that, but if it is a thing that could be done it would be nice and make sense…

High-level talents are supposed to be amazingly powerful. Otherwise, what’s the point? What’s the incentive?

That’s it.You can’t. Others can…

As for Pyro’s ult…if it hits first a tough opponent it won’t hit anyone else… the more powerful is the enemy, the higher is the “stopping power” applied to the skull

People often fire at targets that are just adjacent to other people. This is what shouldn’t be done.
It’s blatant kill-stealing at a minimum and usually done by regular ff offenders.

that is often the case, but i have seen times where waystalker actually tried to aim at something down range with F and it veered to the nearest targets… which were on the other side of a friendly…

I played V1 with no talents for like… 300 hours. High level talents don’t have to be disgustingly good to be interesting and fun.

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This very likely is a thing, but I’ve experienced arrows by sent my way from ridiculous distances and hit me - while on discord with said waywatcher, who was astonished it hit me.

however this makes me facepalm… melee stacking is effective but would also be considered “blatant kill stealing” … in a cooperative game… doesn’t matter who gets the kills as long as things die and everyone was helpful. Kill count only serves to pad someone’s ego IMO… you want kill count to matter, play overwatch or call of duty or something.

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however this makes me facepalm… melee stacking is effective but would also be considered “blatant kill stealing” … in a cooperative game… doesn’t matter who gets the kills as long as things die and everyone was helpful. Kill count only serves to pad someone’s ego IMO… you want kill count to matter, play overwatch or call of duty or something.

Kill-stealing is a problem because it’s usually a very ineffective use of resources. Someone’s going out of their way to use an Active skill to take out a single target that someone else was already going for.
Think slayer. He uses his ultra-low cooldown active to go for 1-2 stormvermin, which he can easily take out, then a ball of flame comes, kill his targets, kills more and then leaves the dwarf hanging.

The topic is also about kill-stealing since the OP feels he can’t kill specials.

On ff:
The problem is that sometimes you will just shoot accepting that you will do FF, like when someone gets taken by a packmaster into a crowd.
Maybe that can’t be fixed by targeting alone. Anyway, a single arrow doesn’t do too much damage. So it’s fine unless you take the whole volley or Sienna’s ball of hurt.

other problem being the people who are either ignorant of friendly fire being a thing, or just don’t care and try to shoot through teammates for “all those kills and damage though! look at my numbers woooo! suck it newbs!” type of people… and unfortunately those types are a thing. Seen a few first hand, and have heard about many secondhand… not much can be done about that though other than vote to kick once you realize…

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Both skills are overpowered and take zero skill. At least change them to be close to to Saltz ‘Bounty Hunter’ ult.

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and take zero skill
And here I am, annoyed but Pyro and WS players that can not use their ultis properly. It was the same with ‘trueflight’ in V1, hurr durr, 0 skill, once you saw what good players could actually do with it, you change your mind. It is the same here, if you are weak, your ultis are useless, just another dmg dealer. If you are good, you can actually make wonders with it, buy yeah, just belive that it takes zero skill.

can i get a crossbow that fires 3 bolts, kills 15 rats in one volley and doesn’t use ammo in return? make the longbow not need to headshot as well, i’d rather just flick my mouse cursor at any special and fire without any aiming or care. let it melt bosses too, that’d be pretty cool.

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You’re missing the point man. “Killing Specials” isn’t a specialization and the Specials aren’t really special when you have to kill multiple “specials” constantly. But if specials didn’t spawn constantly then they’d be trivialized with teams that have pyro and waystalker, and your team would just noskill autoaim most the specials you come across. If you get rid of the noskill shots you can have less specials with the same difficulty.

See @God3nder says Pyro and Waystalker are specializations. But you say because of BS BS and gunners that they are “absolutely necessary” and yeah I agree by picking other classes it can feel like you’re letting down your team when you get wiped by a gunner shooting through a wall. And I definitely say get rid of both the buggy special enemies and pyro/ws ultimates. You shouldn’t feel obligated to play these classes just because otherwise you have to suffer through gunners shooting you through the previous map.

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