Man, ‘specials’ is just the name, but you should know what we are talking about, and yes it is the specialization, as you need specific weapons/skills to kill so called specials fast and they are doing it right now best using specific weapons and skills available for them.
If there were less ‘specials’ then your team no longer would need Pyro or WS and could focus on classes that kill waves faster or bosses. The popularity of WS and Pyro are obvious when we need them so much now.
See you seem to have ignored the OP. I specifically criticized the specials on Legendary and think they should be toned down. And it would be alot easier to reduce Special spam if the devs didn’t have to balance around Pyro/Waystalker possibly being in the group. That you can’t imagine dealing with specials WITHOUT one of these on your team is proof it all needs to be toned down.
Cataclysm in Vermintide 1 managed to be challenging without constantly spamming specials at you. And Hagbane managed to be a viable weapon choice even with Trueflight Longbow in the game, but Trueflight definitely trivialized a lot of specials, and I think having Pyro/WS ultimates in game fatshark is overcompensating on specials at the expense of the viability of other classes.
Higher difficulties and deeds are exactly where pyro/ws become indispensable because there are so many specials some are going to grab a teammate or two and these ultimates are “What do we say to wipes? Not today.” buttons you can use over and over. Having these dudes on your team probably reduces random wipes more than any other class.
But you can just aim pyro’s head at the sky and it will kill what it needs to.
“Easy time killing specials” isn’t a role or specialization, since special spam is constant and most players can expect most wipes and deaths to come from specials. So having Pyro/WS on your team most likely helps you avoid far more wipes than you think. Their benefit is universal whereas classes like Slayer really are specialized just for melee.
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“because there will be no good other characters at it and specials spawns in a large numbers.”
This is why I’d like to see Pyro/WS ultimates reworked AND less special spam. When specials spawn so frequently they aren’t even special, and they don’t really take you by surprise, since you always expect another one right around the corner.
Horde hp could be buffed too when decreasing special spam. Right now it feels like hordes are mainly there to distract you so specials can kill you, whereas in V1 it felt more like specials showed up to distract you from the horde and split you up to get you killed by the horde. Now the horde shows up to distract you or block you from killing the specials that will kill you unless you have Pyro/WS and can noscope them first.
The power of Pyro and WS is that yes there are a ton of specials, and therefore you’re going to have a lot of instances where special spam just overwhelmed you during a horde or boss or when you had a teammate or two down, and Pyro/WS can save their ultimate to prevent wipes with their autoaim shots. They are noscope get out of jail free cards. And if there were less specials then they’d hardly ever kill your team at all if you have pyro/ws on your team. So it feels like they had to set special spam to balance out the possibility of noscope special killers on your team, and if you don’t have those on your team you get punished a lot more, but if less specials and pyro/ws then you’d hardly ever get punished at all.
“nerfing noscop ultimates will make the game less skill based”
just no man. nerf the noskill ultimates, AND rebalance special spam and hordes. Right now it feels like hordes are there to distract you so the constant special spam can kill you, not vice versa like it was in V1.
Come on dude. No need for that. I certainly am useful in Legend for bosses and chaos warriors and reviving players and tanking, but when bardin/sienna are flaming all the hordes, and sienna/kerillian are killing all the specials Bardin can just twiddle his thumbs and autopilot for most of the map, blunderbussing the occasional leech that ports on your ranged. When flamer thrower, staves and noscopes are nerfed, other classes will have a lot more work to do.
It’s what i got from original post. No harm intended.
Kerillian, Sienna and Bardin can kill everything. Ok.
I’ll argue that the BH can kill every special just as well with a great passive combo. His active isn’t as good, but it’s hardly weak.
Huntsman can 1 bodyshot any stormvermin, which the WS can’t. His active is still a strong multipurpose effect.
Unless we start talking about double health specials deeds it’s hard to say that only 2 or 3 careers can deal with enemies.
no, that isn’t my view at all. I’ve very good at instantly taking down leeches, hooks, assassins, whetever sneaks in close, but I’d rather there not be constant special spam making specials not very special but everywhere, and I’d rather this not make the noskill shots so valuable at preventing wipes when you get overwhelmed by specials, I’d rather more difficulty come from hordes and bosses than unspecial special spam. The specials should be distractions from the hordes, not vice versa.
But since we’re playing this game: Why do you feel like you have to have noskill shots in the game? You play like a child. Kill stealing is not the topic of this thread, but your badness now is.
autoaim isn’t skill dude. “I’m really good with autoaim, better than most” isn’t something to be proud about.
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Not sure what you’re unable to process here.
Rework Pyro and WS, you can still make them useful and “specialized” in other ways.
Also, decrease special spam, make hordes and bosses more powerful to compensate.
You are literally complaining about the problem I am trying to solve here.
You SHOULD NOT feel ike you NEED to have Pyro or WS on your team to deal with special spam, that isn’t a “specialization” when special spam is a constant threat and cause most wipes.
“If there were less ‘specials’ then your team no longer would need Pyro or WS and could focus on classes that kill waves faster or bosses. The popularity of WS and Pyro are obvious when we need them so much now.”
Stop reflexively arguing with me and try to pay attention little one.
I’ve pointed what I believe is wrong with pyro’s active.
You firmly believe that the game balance is being focused on 2 careers. I disagree and will also disagree on it being game breaker. Annoying, maybe.
Legend has such special/elite spam that even using “broken” tactics it’s hard for 1/2 players to do all by themselves. Either is there a high skill difference or someone is playing “melee only” with 3 players who also use guns.
Once done it as a slayer with BH/WS/Pyro. Least specials killed but fine elite count.
Either way, legend is pretty doable without pyro/ws.
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It is besides the point that anyone can kill specials. I kill lots of specials. I’m great at blunderbussing Leeches that grab my Sienna/Kerillian. But what I can’t do is prevent a wipe when two teammates are incapacitated and an obscured gunner is shooting you from a mile away. Pyro/WS can prevent those wipes. If you just kept track of your games and how they go and think how’d they play out of Pyro/WS weren’t on your team. I bet having those dudes are saving you from way more wipes than you think. I’d rather the noskill shots be nerfed, the special spam be reduced as well, and hordes/bosses be more threatening.
“Legend has such special/elite spam that even using “broken” tactics it’s hard for 1/2 players to do all by themselves.”
Listen carefully little one: Right now special spam is ridiculous and Pyro/WS save you from a ton of wipes. If special spam wasn’t so high, then with a WS/Pyro you’d hardly ever wipe to specials. I want special spam reduced AND WS/Pyro noskill shots reworked. I want specials to be a distraction from hordes/bosses, not vice versa.
two teammates are incapacitated and an obscured gunner is shooting you from a mile away
Every character has a career that can dash either to kill or assist.
But to the point. Your post makes so that hard to hit targets are a problem. So you just make the case for having tracking skills.
I will disagree. I think there are very few exceptions (mostly broken sorcerors) that can’t be simply shot. A handgun does it.
The rest is just argument by repetition.
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You know that you want things that will have the same result?
- Less specials on Legend
- stupid idea to make legend easier, it is not so hard, just remove the bugs and spawnings next to a player
- if they would do it, WS and Pyro will no longer be popular and played, so why nerf them?
- Nerfing WS and Pyro
- they will need to nerf number of specials, which is stupid, making the game easier is just stupid because it is not so hard if you would not get spawns on you (which is a bug IMHO and not intended by devs)
Read this, it is a loop, that’s why it is wrong way to go. You want somethnig, but you do not care about long term results, which would be horrible.
In my opinion you do not want to think about results, you just have your personal vandetta.
Wow. I mean just wow. I just read pretty much this whole thread and everyone is just ignoring what OP said. Like, damn… you can disagree all you want but all I see is points being made and going over peoples heads.
“You can’t nerf those classes cuz special spam”
“But i want special spam nerfed too”
“But then the game is too easy”
“Make other enemies have more health or something, make it harder in other ways”
“But then you need to nerf WS/Pyro”
“Yes that was my point”
“But you can’t because of special spam”
I mean holy freaking crap, this thread has like 30 unnecessary posts just because no one is actually paying attention to what was said in the post they are responding to.
I personally do not think that the active abilities are the problem. The game is possible without them even on Legend. The real problem is the fact that you can be shot through walls. That needs to be fixed and then you won’t NEED someone that can kill stuff without line of sight. Beam staff needs to be fixed. It has every strength and no weakness, racking up like 19k damage at the end of a match because it can be fired infinitely. There are other ways to balance the issue without even touching the abilities. However, many people do agree with you that special spawn is a cheap way to make Legend harder. I have seen several related threads pop up recently.